Onyx Demo showing up today

[diveout 0]

I've got a package coming today via Fed-Ex that should contain a much awaited Onyx 105 demo canopy from Atair. So far the customer service has been much better that I remember it from about one and a half or two years ago. I will be loading it at about 2.45

I've flown Velocity 111's, VX 109's and a Xaos -27 108, my regluar canopy is a Xaos-21 125. Anybody who's flown one of these things got any advice? I hear they like to be carved for the turn and loaded up high, which should be right up my alley.

[freeflyswc 0]

the onyx does like to be carved. I jumped the 105 loaded @ about 2.6. It has a lot shorter recovery arc than a velocity or vx/fx . The front riser pressure is a dream it's so light , but with that comes heavy rear riser pressure. youll be surprised how fast it naturally pulls out of a dive (not what I look for in a canopy . but thats just opinion) The openings were descent . Had a few snivel,snivel,WHACKs (But nothing a vx hasn't done to me) Overall I think it's a great canopy with alot of potential , I just wish it dove more

Hook Low, Flare Late , Swoop Barefoot and Leave A Bloody Trail,
Vern

[diveout 0]

Do you think it dove less than the next size up of the other designs?

like the 105 might dive similar too or even less than my 125? That would be wierd.

I'm curious to inspect the design up close too.

[superstu 0]

dan, you gonna be out friday? i would like to see it, the canopy that is.

Slip Stream Air Sports
Do not go softly, do not go quietly, never back down

[diveout 0]

I'll be there friday, probably around 6:30-let's do a bunch of hop-n-pops right before sunset

[skygod7777 0]

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like the 105 might dive similar too or even less than my 125? That would be wierd.

i jumped the same 105 that vern had, and the dive sucks really. i can garuntee it will dive less than your 125 does. i jumped vern's 111 velo just this past weekend, and it dives way more than the onyx.

like vern said, the canopy has potential, if they make it dive more it would be a pretty phat canopy i'm sure.

i'm getting a 85 and 95 in this weekend to try out, maybe loaded up more it will perform better (but i'm not counting on a whole lot better). i may throw on some lead with the 85 (get the loading up at like 2.8 or 2.9) and see how it flys there too.

later

[diveout 0]

I wonder if I'm getting the same exact canopy that you guys jumped? What was the color scheme? You don't happen to have the serial # do you?

I was told I would be getting a canopy that had the correct label on it, so maybee it's different. I've only heard from one person that they like the way the onyx dives, anybody else?

[skygod7777 0]

the canopy that i had was all blue (like a baby blue kind of ) with white dimonds and white x braces.

and the label said it was a 95.

they could have just changed the label on it.

later

[flyhi 24]

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I jumped the 105 loaded @ about 2.6.

That puts you about 270 - 275 out the door. What about the bottom end? Did you have to run it out much or could you shut it down at that w/l? If so, in what kind of winds? How did it handle zero winds, crosswinds, or downwinds?

Not that I doubt your numbers, but someone that big running out a w/l of that magnitude has got to be in incredible shape, sir. (And I say "sir" with all the reverance your size and conditioning obviously deserve.)

Shit happens. And it usually happens because of physics.

[skygod7777 0]

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Not that I doubt your numbers, but someone that big running out a w/l of that magnitude has got to be in incredible shape, sir. (And I say "sir" with all the reverance your size and conditioning obviously deserve.)

vern's a big boy dude. it's about 250 or 260 standing without gear.

the day he jumped the canopy it was about 8 to 10 mph winds, so he didn't have to run anything out.

later

[diveout 0]

I'm the most curious about the bottom end as well, this will be the smallest canopy I've flown. I've flown plenty of overloaded 9 cells at like 2.1-2.2 without any problem. as well as various tri-braces up to 2.35.

Being a competition swooper the biggest concern I have is the ability for a canopy to maintain its speed as it planes out, like with decent riser input. My Xaos is really, really good at this (at least I think it is).

By the way I opened the box and it seems to be the same canopy, turquoise blue with white diamonds and ribs. The label has been altered by hand with a pen (it looks pretty good actually) to reflect the actual size which is 105-sitting at work ready to drive to the dz and take this thing for a dance as soon as I get off -not till 6pm

[skygod7777 0]

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By the way I opened the box and it seems to be the same canopy, turquoise blue with white diamonds and ribs. The label has been altered by hand with a pen (it looks pretty good actually) to reflect the actual size which is 105-sitting at work ready to drive to the dz and take this thing for a dance as soon as I get off -not till 6pm

yea, i was supposed to get a 85 and a 95. well i got 2 canopies, and they are 2 different sizes. but one says 85 (the bigger one) and the other has a 75 crossed out and then 85 wrote next to it. so i'm not too sure what the hell i have. but i'm jumping them tomorrow (tonight if i get some weather).

later

[alan 1]

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yea, i was supposed to get a 85 and a 95. well i got 2 canopies, and they are 2 different sizes. but one says 85 (the bigger one) and the other has a 75 crossed out and then 85 wrote next to it. so i'm not too sure what the hell i have. but i'm jumping them tomorrow (tonight if i get some weather).

Yes, I sent them. The 85 is supposed to really be a 95. I was told by Jean at Atair that several canopies had been mislabelled at the factory and the 95 had been sent to me before the placard had been corrected to refelect this. I talked to Dan about it because when layed out flat on the hangar floor on top of my 89 X-VX, the 95 appeared to be smaller by about 5 or 6 sq ft based on how much of the 89 was exposed. Dan said that was due to the 95 being the "projected size". I included a note in the bag about the placarding error when I shipped it to you.

Jean sent me the 85 that had the placard corrected as you mention. I thought the performance was more in the 75 size range for someone with my exit weight (about 215) based on some jumps I have made on a 72 XOAS-27.

Maybe the 89 is actually closer to 95 based on a different measuring system. My 89 is the smallest canopy currently on the DZ so we did not have anything in the 70's to lay out for comparison with the 75/85. Wanna have some fun? Load the smaller canopy at about 215# (actually , you're already about 225#) out the door and try landing it with the rear risers and no toggles at all. It did not go well for me.

alan

[skygod7777 0]

cool.

the 85 or 75 what ever it is (the pink one). looks pretty damn small, i have an 85 vx, and it is smaller than that i'm sure. the 95 or 85 what ever the fuck it is (the yellow one) looks more like my 85 vx.

i'm not sure. i don't care. i'm going to jump them tomorrow and see how they fly.

thanks for the heads up, because i was waiting on an e-mail from jean to find out what they really where, and i wouldn't find that out until monday.

thanks again.

later

[Canuck 0]

This just totally cracks me up. Way to go Atair!! Stellar marketing work!! I can't wait to buy a canopy from a company that doesn't even know what size their demo canopies are.

Or, is it a possibility that they intentionally labelled each canopy one size bigger to compensate for the fact that it reportedly dives like a dog...

I'll kepp my Velocity.

Canuck

[alan 1]

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to compensate for the fact that it reportedly dives like a dog...

I jumped both canopies and another jumper experienced on a 96 FX @ about 2.0#/ft2 jumped the larger canopy. Neither of us or anyone watching us at the DZ felt that either canopy dove like a dog. Both had very nice dives with light riser pressure and a shorter recovery arc when the brakes were
"bumped". The canopies were very responsive to harness input.

As far as Atair marketing, I don't know. I do know I was treated very well and fairly, most especially by Jean. Somewhere, someone made a mistake with these canopies. That is obvious. Everyone makes mistakes, including Atair.

I can understand you keeping your Velocity. I am keeping my X-VX as well. I appreciated the opportunity to jump the Onyx's and was very impressed by the quality of construction and performance. They will not satisfy everyones personal preferences. I have a feeling that a lot of people are really going to love them though and am inclined to give the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the labelling error.

alan

[TALONSKY 0]

I did a hop-n-pop with Dan today; he had the Onyx supposed 105. After the jump I laid my VX 109 made in 2001 by Precision, out and we laid the Onyx over the top. My canopy is the Royal blue one and the Onyx is the light blue one on top. I may not be an expert but it seems as though it is more than just 4 square feet smaller. We lined the tails up and there is a good 12” difference on the nose clear across.
Kirk

[freeflyswc 0]

Yeah , I thought that one looked a little small for 105 the other week when I jumped it . They actually said it was a 95 when they sent it , but then said it was a 105 after the weekend of jumping .

Any reports on the landings?? doesn't dive does it.

[diveout 0]

After two jumps on the Onyx "105"...(loaded at 2.42)

Openings are a bit brisk, both were sub-terminal. The slider on the canopy is too small (I think). It's about 5" shallower (measuring front to back) than the slider from a velocity 90.

The canopy feels very stable and very responsive to all inputs, the front riser pressure is the lightest of anything I've jumped.

Easy to add riser to a turn. YES IT DIVES, the recovery is fairly quick toward the bottom, I do a 270 left from about 600-650 on my Xaos-21 125 at 2.0. The same height seemed appropriate for a 270 left on the Onyx at a much higher wing loading (2.4).

The brake lines are about 4" too short. I can't believe no one else noticed this. It's clearly visible on video from today's landing that the tail is being deflected during front riser input.

Rear risers generate a quick response, and the pressure is manageable, I'd say comparable to a velocity.

Bottom end flare is better than average I guess for the wing loading, probably similar to the current 27cell designs that are available.

I've only got two jumps so it's too early for an overall impression but I think it's a decent canopy. After this next week I'll have some more info about how it handles during the swoop, cuz that's what matters most. I'd like to see somebody fly one of these that has it really dialed in, I think it's go potential.