Incidents reporting

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Ok. So how's this for an idea:

Discuss the incident, but leave out the name of the deceased, the location of the incident and the date of the incident.

Those who know the facts will know what incident is being discussed and can contribute accordingly, those who don't do not need to learn in a public forum that information that could be used to harm... If someone is really concerned and is in the need to know the more personal information can find it elsewhere.

Those ambulance chasing lawyers wouldn't have so much conjecture to use as cannon fodder. Family/friends won't feel as much like their loved one is being trashed, and more incidents are likely to be reported if anonymity is respected. Might work, might not. Just throwing it out there.

Btw, if you learned something about making a decision about jumping in weather from that balloon thread I would be surprised... Knowing that it can sneak up on you out of nowhere isn't really going to help you unless you stop aviation activities completely when there is a cloud within 100 miles. We all know how well that'll work.

In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson

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>if you learned something about making a decision about jumping in weather from that
>balloon thread I would be surprised...

I think some of the people in that thread did. Some comments from that thread:

"I can almost guarantee you that if you were there you would have gone"
"absolutely no indication of looming bad weather at any time"
"It was beautiful. Period"
"If the pilot tells you its ok to jump, you get in the plane; don't you."
"a storm was no where near a remote possibility."

These indicate that the people there thought it was beautiful, and in such weather there is almost no chance of a storm - and if there was the pilot would have stopped them from jumping anyway. We had the good fortune of having an National Weather Service forecaster on that thread who made it pretty clear that "these rapidly building storms are definitely not out of the ordinary." Might knowing that save someone's life some day? Perhaps.

>Discuss the incident, but leave out the name of the deceased, the location of the
>incident and the date of the incident.

There are a few problems with that. In an open forum you'd have issues like this:

"Heard about a fatality; low turn and hard impact."
"Was that the one in Perris?"
"Can't say."
"Oh, did that happen right after the last jump on that bigway?"
"Can't say."
"I heard about one like that last week; was that it?"
"Can't say."
"Well I heard about one too in the Carolinas. Maybe there were two."

However we've talked about having a "sanitized" forum where only moderators can post summaries of incidents. We haven't done that because we already have an incidents summary area where a summary of each incident is posted, so it would be somewhat redundant. But it might be an option if we could manage what's posted to the primary forum somehow.

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Man up and ask the direct question of ALL students, AFF or tandem: "Do you realize that people die while participating in this sport? Understanding this, do you wish to go forward?" Put their responses on video and be willing to play it in court.

Many dropzones already do this as a matter of course during the waiver process, for both experienced and first-time skydivers.

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...also just to add~

Often there is some negative comments regarding the speculation that goes on in the incident discussion.

I for one welcome the speculation in that it sheds some light on 'other' factors that may or may not have necessarily been a cause of the incident under discussion, but it's important to be aware of none the less.

Countless time I've related things discussed, to both past and probable experiences I've had / may have...It's served to put more 'tools' in my toolbox so t speak.

Discouraging such speculation would be a disservice to everyone IMHO.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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I've been keeping an eye on the 'incidents' thread recently, and it got me wondering. A good number of them seem to linked from news media stories/outlets and not first-hand accounts. Considering that we know many, if not most media reports on skydiving incidents can be inaccurate, or incomplete at best, why do these seem to be the primary source for reporting incidents here?

I understand that DZOs & S & TAs are busy people, and have enough to do, especially when there is an incident or fatality, but since the primary purpose of that forum here is to learn, and to avoid making those mistakes in the future, should we really be using the whuffo media as our primary source?

First of all remember this is simply unofficial skydiving website/chat board. Most active skydivers I know, even if they are registered here, don't visit on a regular basis. So while I know frequent visitors to this site think different, this website is in no way a widely accepted forum for reporting incidents. The vast majority of serious injuries I see never make it on here. Pretty well all fatalities do end up here, however.

The USPA has an official process for dissecting and reporting on fatalities and prevention. While not everyone agrees it is the best way, IT IS the formal process for the sport in the US.

The main reason that frequent users of this site seem to think more injuries should be reported here is simply the users’ overestimate of the importance of this site. Because THEY are users and contributors they think everyone else should be also. This is a normal human thought process and not a slur or a judgment. It’s just the way the human mind operates.

I don’t myself see DZO’s or S&TA’s intentionally hiding incidents, although I’m sure a few do. Probably most just don’t see that it is fruitful to post on this website or ever even think to do so; as again this site is just not that important in most people’s minds in the sport. Throw in the level of discourse here is frequently rather base or relegated to shouting matches and that sometimes the “group think” here comes up with some pretty bizarre conclusions about things and I don’t see why much of anyone would bother to post about incidents here. It just doesn’t serve much of any purpose.

Finally, most injuries are the same handful of issues over and over - alpha male flying tiny canopy trying to swoop too soon, etc.

I’m not saying that more reporting of incidents and discussion of them is a bad thing, quite to the contrary. But there are plenty of reasons that you don’t see more of it here.
"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

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