What are the Dangers of underloading a HP Canopy?

[eeneR 1]

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and what are your opinions on a lightly loaded HP canopy?

Well its kinda hard for me to explain what is different seeing I have never flown a heavily loaded one

What I can tell you, is there is a lot more responsiveness between a semi and a fully elliptical canopy at any wing loading (duh ). I do have issues with endcell closure, not that that is a big issue to fix. Just takes a quick flare. However you have to keep in mind that endcell closure on one side (which I have had happen several times) can cause you to go into a turn. Not a big deal, however you need to deal with it when it happens, and realize what is causing the turn. No brainer.

Most of the issues I have with my canopy or more related to it being a Stiletto er should I say SPINletto but controlled body position during opening fixes that.

She is not a "Dumb Blonde" - She is a "Light-Haired Detour Off The Information Superhighway."
eeneR
TF#72, FB#4130, Incauto

[eeneR 1]

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I believe a few years ago there were more stilletos in use, then they went to safires for a bit, then sabre2, but I could be wrong. Even so, part of the progression is putting students on lightly loaded elips of some sort.

I dont believe at any point they used a FULLY elliptical canopy (stiletto) during the student training. Yes we use SEMI ellipticals that are loaded lightly.

I do know they were infact using Safire's and I believe Sabers. I can call and ask...but im pretty sure they never used Stiletto or any FULLY elliptical HP type canopy in there student training.

The transition to a Stiletto is after completing the AFP Student program (20 jumps, completeing A license requirements) If the jumpers canopy skills are up to par, and they want to. And believe me, you have go thru a 20 minute lecture about the canopy before you jump it...

She is not a "Dumb Blonde" - She is a "Light-Haired Detour Off The Information Superhighway."
eeneR
TF#72, FB#4130, Incauto

[Ron 10]

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And believe me, you have go thru a 20 minute lecture about the canopy before you jump it.

You think 20 jumps and a 20 min speach is enough????

If it is, why are so many people with 300 jumps dying under canopies???? Did they miss the speach??

Ron

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[hookit 0]

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You think 20 jumps and a 20 min speach is enough????

If it is, why are so many people with 300 jumps dying under canopies???? Did they miss the speach??

They were talking specifically about transitioning from a semi-elliptical to a fully elliptical main. NOT about canopy training in general.

Blues,
Trey

[eeneR 1]

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You think 20 jumps and a 20 min speach is enough????

Um, no its not...I also stated

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If the jumpers canopy skills are up to par

I was trying to clarify a point that SDC DOES NOT put unlicensed AFP Students out on Stiletto's. In addition they just dont hand over a stilleto right off student status.

People once they graduate (this is from anywere, be it SDC or a DZ that uses manta's) are going to do what they want...and buy what ever they can find within budget. Some people thank god take the time to explain to them what they are getting into, however in some cases the Jumper refuses to listen.
Those are the people that are a danger to themselves and others in the sport.

Each person is different on what there canopy skills are. There are people with 1000+ jumps that have no business flying a Stiletto either.

In my opinion those people who are dying with 300 jumps are becoming complacent of what they are really doing or someone in the air with them has become complacent. When it comes down to it we are all responsible for our own actions and decisions.

She is not a "Dumb Blonde" - She is a "Light-Haired Detour Off The Information Superhighway."
eeneR
TF#72, FB#4130, Incauto

[wmw999 2,314]

To butt in here, having a specialized training program, with individual student evaluation and monitoring, is going to lead to some "outlandish" gear choices.

But then 20+ years ago the thought of a student going up under a square was laughable. And this was when the Strato-Cloud (230 sq. ft. and about as responsive as a truck) was a common canopy. Many students jump more responsive stuff now.

And before that, many dropzones wouldn't let students learn how to cut away until they had at least 25 jumps.

It's going to evolve; the envelope is changing. It's probably better that it change in a formalized program than with individual just-off-student-status kids with more money than jumps buying something because it looks cool.

Doesn't mean we shouldn't question the progression; that's another check. But it's not all bad.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[weid14 0]

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I do know they were infact using Safire's and I believe Sabers. I can call and ask...but im pretty sure they never used Stiletto or any FULLY elliptical HP type canopy in there student training.

The transition to a Stiletto is after completing the AFP Student program (20 jumps, completeing A license requirements) If the jumpers canopy skills are up to par, and they want to. And believe me, you have go thru a 20 minute lecture about the canopy before you jump it...

I guess in it's how you define it, I would still consider it a student progression at that jump level, though. That's ok, you don't need to call, I was just trying to show that lightly loaded HP canopies have been jumped with some success in the past.

[mujie96 0]

I'm bumping this back up, I'd like to hear more opinions from people who've actually flown lightly loaded elliptical canopies. (say 1.2 to 1)

Just keep swimming...just keep swimming....

[Hooknswoop 19]

Another perspective is that there are several elliptical tandem canopies that are flown at very light wing loadings, .7:1 on up. this doesn't comletely apply to a elliptical 160ish at 1.2 but helps.

Largest (non-tandem) fully elliptical (nose and tail tapered) I've flown is a 149 (Crossfire2) at 1.26:1. It flew great.

Hook

[LouDiamond 1]

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I'm bumping this back up, I'd like to hear more opinions from people who've actually flown lightly loaded elliptical canopies. (say 1.2 to 1)

I think I'm loading my stiletto at 1.2 or 1.3 to 1 and I have no issues. I used to have spins on opening and had to fly every opening but I found a combo of rolling the nose 4 and 4 with the center open and having better body position eliminated that problem completly. I didn't have one spin the whole time at ELOY and I was packing pretty fast sometimes. I don't think most people will have an issue with under loading but then again I realize that it's the pilot not the canopy that usually has the tendency to do stupid things. So put a stupid pilot under any canopy and eventually they will drive themselves in. In fact I know I underload my work canopy an un godly amount and I have no issues with it. If I can jump a 375sq ft 7 cell weighing 170 out the door I don't see why a slightly underloaded 9 cell would have any issues. Again , these are my opinions and experiences.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[darkwing 4]

I may be off base here, but the typical "highly zoomie" canopies have very small openings at the cell mouths. I think that a very low wing loading may make them significantly more susceptible to collapse due to migration of the stagnation point away from the cell mouth. Lower loadings make a wing more sensitive to turbulence.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[billvon 2,734]

>I'd like to hear more opinions from people who've actually flown
>lightly loaded elliptical canopies.

I flew a Stiletto at just under 1:1. It was dangerously unstable. I've also flown Silhouettes at much lower loadings with no problems.