Too high,too low...need help with flaring

[dzdiva 7]

I've just recently graduated AFF. Yay!! I still have a little trouble with when to flare. Sometimes I'm too high,but I do adjust.On occasion I think I'm a little low. Can anyone give me advice?

"It's not just a daydream if you choose to make it your life..."

[wlie 0]

I remember reading an article stating that you could visualize yourself getting off an escalator. You do look down (altitude awareness) but you are also looking more towards your side and the horizon (maintain awareness of other jumpers), but you're not stepping off (flaring) while you are still halfway. It's when you are say 3-4 steps from the end, you prepare to step off.

Just a thought.

My other ride is the relative wind.

[dzdiva 7]

And what a good thought. One of my instructors told me when I feel the urge to flare wait a second or two then flare. I've been working on not looking straight down. I guess I'll go to the mall and ride the escalator a few times! Thanks for your time!

"It's not just a daydream if you choose to make it your life..."

[lewmonst 0]

what canopy are you jumping? student gear? same canopy every jump? how high do you flare?
one my instructors always said don't flare when you first think to, but when you get really scared... works for student gear.
you can also start your flare, and do it slower if you're too high, or faster if you're too low.

[Lolie 0]

A guy at my old dz told me the "Oh Shit" rule. You think you should flare, then you think, "Oh shit, oh shit, oh shiiiiit..." (Flare on the last "oh shit," not after...)

But seriously, I think that if you've looked directly at the ground where you want to land for more than two seconds, you've already fixated for too long. It really helps me to keep my eyes moving between where I want to land and the horizon.

-Miranda
you shall above all things be glad and young / For if you're young,whatever life you wear
it will become you;and if you are glad / whatever's living will yourself become.

[Sonic 0]

One of my friends tried that - he didn't flare and stoofed it - he was still waiting for the 1st "oh shit"

-----------------------------------
It's like something out of that twilighty show about that zone

[franck102 0]

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you can also start your flare, and do it slower if you're too high, or faster if you're too low.

That's definitely the secret IMHO. When you think it is time to flare pull the brakes down a couple inches, and see what happens. If the ground has come 50% closer better speed up big time; if you feel you started too high mark a pause and try again. Of course you eat up a bit of flare each time, but at least this approach avoids disaster (at least on a lightly loaded canopy).
Be aware that most of your flare potential is at the beginning of the brake range, don't eat it up too early!

Franck

[Lolie 0]

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One of my friends tried that - he didn't flare and stoofed it - he was still waiting for the 1st "oh shit"

Yeah, it doesn't work for me either; I never end up thinking, "Oh shit." It's more like, "Now? Now? Now?" (The "Oh Shit Technique" doesn't earn my seal of approval, in case you're wondering. I definitely reccommend the horizon technique instead...)

-Miranda
you shall above all things be glad and young / For if you're young,whatever life you wear
it will become you;and if you are glad / whatever's living will yourself become.

[dzdiva 7]

Still using student canopy. I don't feel comfortable changing yet. I judge by the windsock. It's 8ft off the ground. I usually flare just under that. I had kind of a rough landing on my level 3. Won't really get into it...lets just say haystack,flared too high,hit hard and para-hiking. I think sometimes that still comes into play. Not as much as it used to.Thanks for the words of advice.

"It's not just a daydream if you choose to make it your life..."

[Hooknswoop 19]

It doesn't matter too much when you start your flare, but when you finish your flare is important.

A drill I use for teaching how to flare is to have the jumper stand at the top of a flight of stairs with their arms over their head, in the "Full Flight" position. Then have them walk quickly down the stairs and "flare" as if they were under canopy. At first they usually finish their flare 7-8 steps from the floor. So I tell them to jump from there. They of course don't jump, but then they realize that is where the "canopy" would have stopped if they had actually been landing a canopy and finished the flare that high. Back up the stairs for another try and they finish the flare on the last step. Works wonders for understanding how to flare a canopy for landing and getting the visual picture. "Stairs, the canopy pilot's wind tunnel"

Also, I explain flaring a canopy is similar to pulling up to a stop sign in a car. Apply brakes (flare) as neccesary to stop the car even with the stop sign (the ground), not short of it and not past it into the intersection.

Vary/adjust the speed of the flare as necessary so that you will finish the flare just before you land ( 6-inches-ish).

Hook

[Kolla 0]

Does your DZ offer canopy coaching of any sort?
Might be a great investment to do a couple of jumps with a qualified coach at your DZ.
Most coaches will work with you on various canopy skills, to include your approach + landing. They normally tape your landing and that way they can explain to you exactly what is going on - to me it was a lot easier to understand what I was doing/not doing when I actually saw it, rather than having someone explain it to me verbally.

Best of luck - soft landings!
Kolla

Blue Skies Magazine

[dzdiva 7]

Thanks alot I'll give it a shot!

"It's not just a daydream if you choose to make it your life..."

[dzdiva 7]

Actually I've set up to have a coach jump with me on the next few. Weather permitting. They're calling for snow. Thanks for your help! It's so nice to be able to ask different people.Everyone is great and I'm learning alot from this site. It's like coming home!!

"It's not just a daydream if you choose to make it your life..."

[quade 4]

A couple of things;

You -do- have to weigh all information you get from message boards and the internet as to whether it is credible or not.

Advice such as "flair when you see individual blades of grass" might work for a one particular person, but in general isn't the kind of thing that will help the majority of people and isn't a normally acceptable answer to the question of how to judge height. It also might get a person with less than perfect vision injured.

Ok, now here's -my- big disclaimer.

I'm -not- a JM. In fact, I don't even have a USPA Coach rating.

I am, however, an airplane certified flight instructor and have taught a number of people over the years how to land airplanes. I've also given advice to a few folks on how to land canopies, written a couple of articles on the subject -- stuff like that.

**********

I'm almost certain that at some point or another you've been told to "look at the horizon" in order for you to judge how high you are above the ground. Unfortunately, what's usually not communicated in this is how this is helpful, what the technique is and how exactly can you go about figuring out how high you are above something.

I have a couple of little exercises I can give you to help.

I want you to find something at the DZ that you can climb up on and look out at the landing area. Maybe some steps leading up to a building or maybe a picnic table.

Stand on ground level near this object and look at the DZ landing area. As you gaze out over the landing area, take note of any buildings, flags, cars and trees. Look all the way out to the horizon. Notice where the horizon line bisects the objects. If you're of average height, then other people's heads might be fairly close to the horizon line. Tops of trees that are 15 to 20 feet high, will be a bit above the horizon line. I want you to really notice where these things are because that's the exact place you'll want them to be when you finally touch down for a stand up landing.

After you've spent maybe three or four minutes looking at that sight picture, I want you to climb up on the object and stand on top of it. Hopefully you'll be about three or four feet higher than ground level.

Do the same exercise of looking out to the horizon and really observe where the previously looked at objects are now. People's heads should now be clearly below the level of the horizon. Again, take maybe three or four minutes of time to really look at these things and notice what they look like and how they appear in relation to the horizon from that known height.

If you can manage it, you might want to repeat this excercise at a couple of higher levels as well -- up to maybe 15 feet above the ground if you can find something that tall to stand on.

By repeating this excercise, you'll quickly gain a feel for how high you are above the ground.

I don't think I'd really want to address the timing of your flair at this point as you'll probably be better served on that point by your JMs.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[bobsoutar 0]

I agree with hookandswoop on this one, I use pulling up at traffic lights as an example of bleeding off your forward speed ready to touch down gently.

Bear in mind that you are also coming downwards as well as forwards and the wind speed will have a big effect on the way that you flare - so you can't have one technique for all occasions, you need to adjust your flare for the conditions.

If the wind is strong you will need very little brakes to stop going forward across the ground - so you would flare low using just enough brakes to stop.

If the wind is light (or nil) you will have more speed to bleed off so you will need to start your flare higher and then smoothly judge bringing down your toggles so that you run out of forward speed about a foot above the ground. Be ready to take a step or so forward if you get it wrong.

[dzdiva 7]

I want to thank you for your advice.I trust all my JM's so usually when I read or hear something I run it by them. What you said makes alot of sense. I'll give it a shot this weekend. When it comes to this sport I weigh everything heavily. If it doesn't sound right or feel right I won't do it. Thanks again for your time!

Laurie

"It's not just a daydream if you choose to make it your life..."

[ladyskydiver 0]

Thanks for that suggestion! I've always been told look at the horizon or stand at the top of the stairs and imagine it, but walking down the stairs, I'm going to try that and see if I can get more standup landings.

Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile.

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

As this clearly belongs in the canopy control forum, I will put it there so that others may find it later.

I like Derek's idea; I will steal it and use it in future classes as I see fit!.

Chuck

[hookit 0]

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If the wind is strong you will need very little brakes to stop going forward across the ground - so you would flare low using just enough brakes to stop.

If the wind is light (or nil) you will have more speed to bleed off so you will need to start your flare higher and then smoothly judge bringing down your toggles so that you run out of forward speed about a foot above the ground. Be ready to take a step or so forward if you get it wrong.

This past weekend the winds were low and I actually commented to a friend at the fact that many of the students were flaring too high and were subsequently dropping the last 5 or 6 feet to the ground rather roughly.

I would be very careful with advising any student or novice to flare higher on a no-wind day. Usually their urge is to flare too high because their ground speed is higher than they're used to and it freaks them out a bit.

If you think of the first part of the flare as scrubbing off downward speed while the latter part of the flare scrubs off forward speed then the flare should begin at the same altitude regardless of how low or high the winds are. The goal is to level off just above the ground. The only difference in the flare on a windy day will be that you don't need to finish it as completely because you won't have as much forward ground speed to scrub off.

The first part of the flare (the part which slows your descent) will take just as much altitude to complete whether the winds are high or low. If a canopy pilot begins the flare higher on a no-wind day then they will plane out higher above the ground and end up dropping the last few feet which is a fairly common cause of sprained and even broken ankles.

Blues,
Trey

[dzdiva 7]

OOPS! Newbie mistake! Sorry!

"It's not just a daydream if you choose to make it your life..."

[dzdiva 7]

So about how high do you usually flare? Windy vs non-windy. Does the feeling of ground rush ever go away?

"It's not just a daydream if you choose to make it your life..."

[Pablito 0]

I like Derek's Idea really well.
It will sound wierd, but feel the canopy on the flare. If you see that you are to high adjust but not giving any input if you are to low give more input.
and with practice you will be more accurate.
Cielos Azules
Pablito

"If you don't overcome your fears they will overcome you first"
Shady Monkey/6Segundos Rodriguez/AKA Pablito

[kallend 1,830]

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one my instructors always said don't flare when you first think to, but when you get really scared...

Like, when you're standing in the door and the exit light goes on?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[hookit 0]

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So about how high do you usually flare?

Unfortunately it will vary widely depending upon the canopy and the wing-loading so there's no single correct answer IMO. It's something that you'll just have to get a feel for. Some people pick it up more quickly than others so don't be discouraged if you don't perfect your landing technique right away. That's why they start everyone big canopies...best to make your mistakes with lots of canopy above you!

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Does the feeling of ground rush ever go away?

I sure hope not!

Actually I believe ground rush tends to come from focusing too much on one spot on the ground (usually where you're going to land). A friend of mine who's a flight instructor said that he tells new pilots to keep their eyes moving from one end of the runway to the other during the landing approach to help improve their depth perception by keeping them from fixating on one spot. Basically it's the same thing Lolie posted earlier in this thread. I used this technique (when I could remember to do it!) when I was a newbie and I believe it helped me. Good luck.

Blue Skies and Soft Landings!
-Trey

[Hooknswoop 19]

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So about how high do you usually flare? Windy vs non-windy. Does the feeling of ground rush ever go away?

Again, don't focus so much on when to begin the flare, the key to a good landing is finishing the flare just prior to touching down. The ideal time/altitude to start the flare will depend on the canopy and wingloading. Like Hookit said, it doesn't matter what the winds are doing, that won't affect when to start the flare only how much to flare. First part of the flare stops downward (vertical) speed, second part of the flare stops foward(Horizontal) speed. Look at swoopers, the flare a bit to get the canopy to plane out and stop it's descent, then continue to flare to stop it's foward speed. (And keep it horizontal). All canopies land this way, most just pass through the stop descent/plane-out/stop foward speed very quickly.

How far from a stop sign do you begin applying the brakes? Depends on how good the brakes are, how heavy the vehicle is, how fast you are going, and how much of a hurry you are in. The first time you drive someone else's (or a new) car and you want to stop, you apply the brakes, then adjust how much pressure you apply to the pedal based on the result from the initial result from the first bit of pressure you put on the pedal. If the car is slowing faster than you expected (their brakes are better/more sensitive/lighter car, etc) you hold the pressure on the pedal, wait, then more slowly than your are used too, apply more pressure to bring the car to a stop. Same technique for landing a canopy. Begin the flare at 8-12 ft-ish, then adjust the speed/rate of the flare to finish the flare just before you touch down.

Biggest thing is to trust that the canopy WILL stop when you flare. I see people that don't trust their canopies, they see the ground rushing up at them and they flare hard and stop, 10+ feet off the ground. Practice flares will help, feeling the canopy stop as you flare will help you trust it.

Hook