alan 1 #26 January 17, 2002 QuoteFound this on the web. Is this it?http://www.afn.org/skydive/sta/highperf.pdf Yes it is, but the copy I have is a later reision. I'm not sure what the differences are, however. Oh, and my copy is not in Word format as I thought in an earlier post, it is in Acrobat.pdf as the link you provided is.alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alan 1 #27 January 17, 2002 QuoteHow fast do you get under a canopy during a swoop? I mean like the fastest speed right before the corner or where ever that may occur? Also has anyone ever used a radar gun or some kind of speed indicater to verify the speed? Now I know its going to be different at different wing loadings and with different canopies but I've heard anything from 55 mph to over 100 mph. So does anyone know whats closer to right?I have been clocked with a radar gun at the bottom of my recovery arc at over 70 mph. VX 89 @~2.4 at the time. I was still pretty inexperienced on the canopy at that time, so I'm pretty sure I could exceed that now. Plus, with a little hard work at beer time, I'm now at about 2.53. At that loading, I don't think that something around 80 mph would be out of the question.alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #28 January 17, 2002 Alan, send me the PDF and I'll see if I can convert it to Word.Or at least do most of the donkey work for you....... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallingMarc 0 #29 January 18, 2002 Question-If you're going over 80 mph on a swoop at the bottom of your arc... then couldn't you theoretically(or maybe you do, I don't know the physics of a swoop very well, I'm still learning to hit a target straight in) have a descent rate of the same speed or more in a high speed diving turn? And doesn't the expert cypres fire at 78 mph? I know a cypres disarms itself under 150 feet, but what if you're playing at those speeds up higher?Or maybe I'm not thinking straight. It's been known to happen. This just struck me as I was reading...Marc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycat 0 #30 January 18, 2002 QuoteAnd doesn't the expert cypres fire at 78 mph? Actually due to this very reason is why Derek no longer jumps a cypress. Neither Icarus nor Airtec could tell him it wouldn't fire while he was in a hook turn. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alan 1 #31 January 18, 2002 QuoteQuestion-If you're going over 80 mph on a swoop at the bottom of your arc... then couldn't you theoretically(or maybe you do, I don't know the physics of a swoop very well, I'm still learning to hit a target straight in) have a descent rate of the same speed or more in a high speed diving turn? And doesn't the expert cypres fire at 78 mph? I know a cypres disarms itself under 150 feet, but what if you're playing at those speeds up higher?Good question. There are two components to the speed of a canopy, horizontal and vertical. CYPRES is only concerned with the vertical component. So far, the vertical component has not been an issue, even during aggressive spiraling in the range CYPRES firing altitudes, but with the advent of the new x-braced canopies, wing loading and performance have come into the range where Airtec is taking a look at the firing algorithims. Bottom line......Yes, I believe that with some of todays canopies a skilled and experienced pilot could appoach the firing threshold, but remember, the CYPRES is designed to fire at ~750' AGL, so playing at say 2000' AGL _should_ not pose serious risk even though the rate of decent could exceed 78 mph. Most high performance canopy pilots are not screwing around anymore at 1000', they are setting up their landing approach. During the energy/speed building manuevers below this altitude, I would not be trying to have an excessive vertical component, but rather vectoring it for reasons of safety and effieciency. These canopies have a very long recovery arc and one had better be in it with enough altitude to achieve horizontal flight befire landing. I hope this answers your questions.alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallingMarc 0 #32 January 19, 2002 So in a high speed swoop, your highest rate of descent will be less than your peak airspeed? Actually, come to think of it, that makes perfect sense for a carving riser turn.Quoteremember, the CYPRES is designed to fire at ~750' AGL, so playing at say 2000' AGL _should_ not pose serious risk even though the rate of decent could exceed 78 mphI don't have a cypres manual, but for some reason I assumed it was designed to fire if you were *below* 750 feet and descending faster than 78 mph. Is that correct or does it fire *at* 750 feet? Say, someone is on a plane that goes up above 1500, arming the cypres, then something goes wrong and the plane has dropped to 900 feet when he bails out. He should be below 78 mph when he passes through 750 feet, right? Well, maybe not, it's too late and I'm too lazy to actually do the math. But assume he gets out close enough to 750 that he doesn't hit 78 mph until 500 feet. Will the cypres fire at that point?Maybe I should get a manual.Marc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #33 January 19, 2002 I don't have the manual handy, but I belive that the first or original firing altitude/speed is 750 ft and 78 mph. I seem to remember that it will fire below 750 (Don't know how fast), but that it will not fire under 150 (At this altitude it's pointless). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aviatrr 0 #34 January 19, 2002 Quote I don't have a cypres manual, but for some reason I assumed it was designed to fire if you were *below* 750 feet and descending faster than 78 mph. The Cypres is designed to fire at or below 750ft if the vertical speed exceeds 78mph(115 FPS).. If you exit at 700ft, and reach 78mph at 300ft, theoretically the Cypres should fire.. The Cypres will disarm itself at 130ft, and is not supposed to fire below that altitude..Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rkramer3533 0 #35 January 22, 2002 I learned how to swoop by first getting the basics down because I Eat the dirt. I recommend depending on you canopy to start with slow carving turns and then advancing from there. Downwind landing may be okay but look at your winds first!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weid14 0 #36 January 23, 2002 there was an accident at a northern DZ three years ago where someone cut their canopy away really low, and reached a high enough speed to activate the CYPRES, but unfortunately not high enough to fully deploy the reserve. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kirils 1 #37 January 23, 2002 This a good argument for buying an Astra over a Cypress!Skydiving is not a static excercise with discrete predictability... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #38 January 23, 2002 "This a good argument for buying an Astra over a Cypress!"Care to explain that one?"I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"Clay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alan 1 #39 January 24, 2002 Quote"This a good argument for buying an Astra over a Cypress!"Care to explain that one?My guess is that you can turn the Astra off once you are under canopy, so if you have a hp canopy and are doing hp landings where you have some doubt about an AAD fire, you can have the benefit of the AAD for the jump w/o the risk of an unwanted fire under canopy. Just a guess, not an opinion on the merit of his statement.alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #40 January 25, 2002 Well...I'll put it this way...I've watched Chuck swoop his Cobalt 65 numerous times and he's never had a Cypres fire to my knowledge. I think I'm pretty safe under just about anything I will be flying for the next 10 years at least. Or maybe I'm crazy......"I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"Clay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kirils 1 #41 January 26, 2002 I couldn't have said it better myself...Kudos.Skydiving is not a static excercise with discrete predictability... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
