Wing Loading

[DaleThornton 0]

Hello There
I would like to know a little more about wing loading and if any of you know where I can get some good info on this subject. The reason I ask this is because I am in the process of buying a new Canopy (Hornet) My exit weight will be about 231 lb. The recommended wing load for the hornet is 1.2. If I get a 190 Ill get a wing load of 1.22 if I get a 170 Ill get a wing load of about 1.36. Is there a major difference in performance between these two load ratios. The reason I ask this is that Id like to buy something which is suitable for my experience now, but will also be good to fly in 6 months time as I intend to do about 150 jumps whithin the next 6 months.
Please advise ?
Thankyou and have a great new year
Blue Skies
Dale

[PhreeZone 14]

Check out http://www.performancedesigns.com/seminars.html. Read all 3 of the papers. Know the papers, live the papers and retain the information in the papers for a long time. John did a seminar at Lake Wales and went deep into some of the ideas and I learned a few new things myself there.
I want to touch the sky, I want to fly so high ~ Sonique

[DaleThornton 0]

Thanks Phree
Some pretty good info there, Would there be a significant change in performance between the 190 and 170 though. #

[PhreeZone 14]

Aboslutly. The shorter lines on the 150 really do alter the proformace of the canopy and while it might not seem like it just thinking about it, it makes for a tricker landing. The 150 will feel much twitcher in the flare then the 170.
I want to touch the sky, I want to fly so high ~ Sonique

[riggerrob 558]

Stick with wingloading guidelines published by canopy manufacturers until you have a few hundred more jumps.
Eventually you figure out on your own which manufacturers publish realistic numbers (ie. Icarus), and which manufacturers (several American manufacturers) publish numbers written by cowardly corporate lawyers.
Exceeding placarded numbers on any reserve is foolish.

[Jimbo 0]

Quote

Eventually you figure out on your own which manufacturers publish realistic numbers (ie. Icarus), and which manufacturers (several American manufacturers) publish numbers written by cowardly corporate lawyers.

Nice. -
Jim
Help with cancer research here.

[hookit 0]

Icarus canopies also offers an overview of canopy performance characteristics at various wing loadings: http://www.icaruscanopies.com/choosing.htm
It's interesting reading but the best thing to remember is that as performance increases the safety margin decreases. As a new jumper you will definitely notice a difference between the 170 and 190 at the wing-loadings you're mentioning.
Buying a first canopy is a hard decision because you're torn between not wanting to hurt yourself and not wanting to be bored under the canopy a month after you purchase it.
The best advice I can give you is to ask a local jumpmaster (or other qualified jumper) who has seen you fly and land a canopy what they feel you're ready for. The biggest indication of what size canopy you can safely fly is going to be an honest assessment of how you're flying and landing the canopy you're currently under (even if it's a rental).
Also be aware that canopy manufacturers offer demos. You could call PD up and ask to demo a sabre2 190 (I believe the hornet is a sabre knockoff). They'll more than likely let you have it for two weeks for only the cost of shipping. (I believe Kolla is the person in charge of demo's for PD and she's extremely pleasant to deal with.) In two weeks (with good weather) you should be able to knock out at least 5 to 10 jumps on the canopy. This would greatly improve your experience level as well as give you a better feel for whether or not you're ready for a 170.
You didn't indicate how many jumps you have in your original post but I'm guessing you have somewhere between 10 and 30 jumps? At that experience level I personally feel a wing loading of 1.36 would be overly aggressive.
Blue Skies and Soft Landings,
Trey

[Spectrejumper 0]

Quote

The best advice I can give you is to ask a local jumpmaster (or other qualified jumper) who has seen you fly and land a canopy what they feel you're ready for. The biggest indication of what size canopy you can safely fly is going to be an honest assessment of how you're flying and landing the canopy you're currently under (even if it's a rental).

I've never bought into the whole 'ask someone else what canopy you can handle' theory of canopy buying. None of those people are going to be under that canopy looking at the ground coming up much faster than you've ever seen before. If you're looking to downsize, I'd recommend you borrow/rent a canopy one size smaller than what you're currently jumping and put some jumps on it. If you can consistantly land safely and want more speed, go down to the next size. Repeat until you find a canopy you feel comfortable with. You'll be much happier than if you drop two or three sizes based on someone's recommendation and find yourself scared shitless under canopy.

Quote

Also be aware that canopy manufacturers offer demos. You could call PD up and ask to demo a sabre2 190 (I believe the hornet is a sabre knockoff). They'll more than likely let you have it for two weeks for only the cost of shipping.

PD charges $30, you get to keep the canopy for two weekends, you are responsible for return shipping.
Mike D-23312
"It's such a shame to spend your time away like this...existing." JMH

[skymedic 0]

Quote

ask to demo a sabre2 190 (I believe the hornet is a sabre knockoff).

the hornet came before the sabre 2....and after flying them both I have to say it seems the sabre two is an expensive hornet and nothing more....
marc
I have no fear of falling but I hate hitting the ground -The Badlees

[DaleThornton 0]

Thanks for the info trey, I have jumped a f111 170 and had no problems I have also jumped a ZP170 fine. I have 56 jumps as opposed to between 10 - 30
Dale

[hookit 0]

Spectrejumper wrote:
I've never bought into the whole 'ask someone else what canopy you can handle' theory of canopy buying. None of those people are going to be under that canopy looking at the ground coming up much faster than you've ever seen before. If you're looking to downsize, I'd recommend you borrow/rent a canopy one size smaller than what you're currently jumping and put some jumps on it. If you can consistantly land safely and want more speed, go down to the next size.
The reason I feel it's a good idea for a low time jumper to ask a more experienced jumper to watch their landings and let them know if they feel the low timer is ready to downsize is because the experienced jumper can offer an objective opinion. They will be able to see if you're not finishing your flare completely or if you're pumping the toggles or perhaps waiting too late to begin the flare and then stabbing it out (all fairly common problems for low time jumpers). There are any number of things that a jumper could consistently get away with on a large canopy but then get hurt using the same technique on a smaller and faster canopy once they've downsized.
Also a person who's been in the sport for at least a few years will have seen plenty of people biff in and will advise a conservative plan for downsizing.
On a side note, another good idea IMO is to get someone to video your landings. You'll notice details of your form and technique that you wouldn't have without the video. Plus there's the digme factor!!
I whole-heartedly agree that someone should downsize only one canopy size at a time and get used the the increased speed and sink of the smaller canopy before downsizing again. I didn't mean to imply otherwise.
Blues,
Trey

[hookit 0]

Okay...I know this is off-topic but how do you automatically quote a message to which you're replying as Spectrejumper and Skymedic did earlier in this thread?
I tried checking under Control Panel and didn't see it there. I also read the FAQ's and searched previous threads and wasn't able to turn it up!
Thanks!

[PhreeZone 14]

Use the [Quote ]Text you want to Quote[/Quote ] option. Just remove the space between the e and the ].
I want to touch the sky, I want to fly so high ~ Sonique

[hookit 0]

Quote

Use the [Quote ]Text you want to Quote[/Quote ] option. Just remove the space between the e and the ].

Cool! Thanks!

• Quote

[dalemeyer 0]

Howzit going Dale,

I thought for a moment that i posted this message as i am in the same predicament as you except my exit weight is 245lbs and i have a 190 hornet...
haven been able to jump it yet but can hardly wait

good to know we not alone in the world

blue skies
dale meyer

Take it easy... and if you get it easy, take it TWICE!

[Stumpy 254]

you do know the last post on this thread was 5 years ago don't you?

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[bob.dino 0]

Do a search on wing loading. There's been a huge amount of discussion. Make sure you read the PD document "Wing Loading and Its Effects"

[dalemeyer 0]

spot the newbie... hehe

Take it easy... and if you get it easy, take it TWICE!

[dalemeyer 0]

will give it a bash...

thanks a million

Take it easy... and if you get it easy, take it TWICE!

[DrewEckhardt 0]

Quote

Hello There

I would like to know a little more about wing loading and if any of you know where I can get some good info on this subject.

With his background in parachute design, canopy coaching, and psychology Brian Germain is uniquely qualified to comment on wingloading.


http://www.bigairsportz.com/pdf/bas-sizingchart.pdf


Asking enough jumpers (with or without instructional ratings) will get you less conservative recomendations on wingloading, although until you've made 1000+ jumps you won't know whether you're one of those people who gets away following that advice, suffers a single painful injury (usually broken femurs, but some people manage a tib/fib or spinal fracture), or ends up dead.