SkydiveMonkey 0 #1 December 13, 2001 What exactly is a 'wingover' and how do you perform it? Is it when you stall the canopy and suddenly let go of one of the toggles? I skydive, therefore I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jonno5 0 #2 December 13, 2001 Not sure what a wingover is,at least not in terms of canopy flight,but i did just what you described under my old Sabre 170.It turned instantly into 5 line twists and i just about sh@t myself.Not sure if i was just unlucky or very stupid,still it was a lesson learned. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jimbo 0 #3 December 13, 2001 QuoteIs it when you stall the canopy and suddenly let go of one of the toggles? Never let go of a toggle. Never let go of a toggle.Do not let go of your toggles. Letting go of the toggles is bad.You use your toggles to steer and brake your parachute, when you let go of a toggle are you certain you'll be able to get it back immediatly if necessary? Please, for your safety and the safety of those around you keep your hands on the toggles and your head on a swivel.-Jim Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkydiveMonkey 0 #4 December 13, 2001 I don't mean let go of it, just let it back up to normal full-speed-flight position. I'm always checking around me, even behind me - don't want to be in a bad position in relation to other people. I skydive, therefore I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cobaltdan 0 #5 December 13, 2001 canopies can react in undesirable ways when in a stall...most especially when in a stall with a sudden change in input.please practice stalls with slow inputs: risers and toggles.explore the flight and control envelope of your canopy with progressive input.sincerely,danatair Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkydiveMonkey 0 #6 December 13, 2001 I don't really intend on doing this as i sounds a bit dodgy, but I just wanted to know exactly what happens. I skydive, therefore I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Kirils 1 #7 December 13, 2001 I know a "wing-over" as pendulum type manuver that swings you over the top of the canopy, kinda like a loop. It's accomplished by alternating toggles. Your path is like tracing a mobius strip. If the G force is high enough you will invert and not fall into the canopy. A fellow from my DZ did it with my HeatWave at a 1:1 loading. He went to the apex, the canopy collapsed and he fell off to one side of the bottom of the canopy. Luckily it cleared, but it was a very low pull. I personally haven't done it under canopy, but as a former pilot I would pull the nose high and use rudder to kick the plane over (like going into a spin) then neutralize with opposite rudder. It was like doing a cartwheel. Skydiving is not a static excercise with discrete predictability... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #8 December 13, 2001 I did something like that (the pendulum type manuver) jumping a couple weeks ago. I had pulled a bit higher then usual (I was in the saddle at about 3.5k) so I thought I would play. I pulled the right toggle to start a good ol' spiral, at about the top of the swing to the left, I pulled the left toggle fairly quickly to swing me the other way (trying to get a real fast dive/turn/spiral). Well, it started very well and then my canopy collapsed in on it's self and my lines twisted. Luckly for me, the canopy started to spin and dive (sarcasm), but a couple pulls on the rear risers and the canopy fixed its self (right before I cut away). After all of this I had lost 1k of altitude, atleast I was still at 2k, though. Well, until my canopy went to crap, it was pretty cool, I was in a pretty steep dive and starting a turn real fast. I don't think I'm going to try that again, atleast not like, though.AggieDave '02-------------Blue Skies and Gig'em Ags!BTHO t.u. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnischalke 0 #9 December 13, 2001 Reverse canopy turns kick ass!! It's in the new ISP and four are required for an A. I started doing them on jump 12 or so and fell in love. I have had to look up and to the right to see the ground. (if someone can go further inverted, be my guest. I won't.) I have not had a collapse yet, I think due to easy toggle input both going in and coming out. I usually hit the transition rather quickly but never hold the thing for more than a 180. I have felt the rapid deceleration at about 150 degrees that told me I was going to leave that apex involuntarily if I didn't ease out of it soon. It is super cool if done correctly. I know on my Silhouette at 1.1, I can not turn a reverse canopy turn into a spiral. There's just too much inversion/momentum loss happening to translate into a spiral, for me at least.Peacemike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ramon 0 #10 December 14, 2001 A wingover is a paragliding maneuver. where they dive pull out of it, gain altitude and turn a 180 or so back into a dive before they stall.ramon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ramon 0 #11 December 14, 2001 Forgot to mentionstalling the canopy and letting go of one of the toggles is called a stall turn.I would on recommend doing them in a triathlon/omega/spectre type seven cells that recovery quickly and square from such a maneuver.My friend Walt Appel does them all the time. beginestall and let one toggle up Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites alan 1 #12 December 15, 2001 Exactly Ramon. He may also be confusing a wing over with a barrel roll, where you dive, pull out of it and do a 360 towards the horizon, going inverted and coming back to level flight towards the horizon again on the same heading as the climb was initiated.alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
Jonno5 0 #2 December 13, 2001 Not sure what a wingover is,at least not in terms of canopy flight,but i did just what you described under my old Sabre 170.It turned instantly into 5 line twists and i just about sh@t myself.Not sure if i was just unlucky or very stupid,still it was a lesson learned. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #3 December 13, 2001 QuoteIs it when you stall the canopy and suddenly let go of one of the toggles? Never let go of a toggle. Never let go of a toggle.Do not let go of your toggles. Letting go of the toggles is bad.You use your toggles to steer and brake your parachute, when you let go of a toggle are you certain you'll be able to get it back immediatly if necessary? Please, for your safety and the safety of those around you keep your hands on the toggles and your head on a swivel.-Jim Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveMonkey 0 #4 December 13, 2001 I don't mean let go of it, just let it back up to normal full-speed-flight position. I'm always checking around me, even behind me - don't want to be in a bad position in relation to other people. I skydive, therefore I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cobaltdan 0 #5 December 13, 2001 canopies can react in undesirable ways when in a stall...most especially when in a stall with a sudden change in input.please practice stalls with slow inputs: risers and toggles.explore the flight and control envelope of your canopy with progressive input.sincerely,danatair Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkydiveMonkey 0 #6 December 13, 2001 I don't really intend on doing this as i sounds a bit dodgy, but I just wanted to know exactly what happens. I skydive, therefore I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Kirils 1 #7 December 13, 2001 I know a "wing-over" as pendulum type manuver that swings you over the top of the canopy, kinda like a loop. It's accomplished by alternating toggles. Your path is like tracing a mobius strip. If the G force is high enough you will invert and not fall into the canopy. A fellow from my DZ did it with my HeatWave at a 1:1 loading. He went to the apex, the canopy collapsed and he fell off to one side of the bottom of the canopy. Luckily it cleared, but it was a very low pull. I personally haven't done it under canopy, but as a former pilot I would pull the nose high and use rudder to kick the plane over (like going into a spin) then neutralize with opposite rudder. It was like doing a cartwheel. Skydiving is not a static excercise with discrete predictability... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #8 December 13, 2001 I did something like that (the pendulum type manuver) jumping a couple weeks ago. I had pulled a bit higher then usual (I was in the saddle at about 3.5k) so I thought I would play. I pulled the right toggle to start a good ol' spiral, at about the top of the swing to the left, I pulled the left toggle fairly quickly to swing me the other way (trying to get a real fast dive/turn/spiral). Well, it started very well and then my canopy collapsed in on it's self and my lines twisted. Luckly for me, the canopy started to spin and dive (sarcasm), but a couple pulls on the rear risers and the canopy fixed its self (right before I cut away). After all of this I had lost 1k of altitude, atleast I was still at 2k, though. Well, until my canopy went to crap, it was pretty cool, I was in a pretty steep dive and starting a turn real fast. I don't think I'm going to try that again, atleast not like, though.AggieDave '02-------------Blue Skies and Gig'em Ags!BTHO t.u. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnischalke 0 #9 December 13, 2001 Reverse canopy turns kick ass!! It's in the new ISP and four are required for an A. I started doing them on jump 12 or so and fell in love. I have had to look up and to the right to see the ground. (if someone can go further inverted, be my guest. I won't.) I have not had a collapse yet, I think due to easy toggle input both going in and coming out. I usually hit the transition rather quickly but never hold the thing for more than a 180. I have felt the rapid deceleration at about 150 degrees that told me I was going to leave that apex involuntarily if I didn't ease out of it soon. It is super cool if done correctly. I know on my Silhouette at 1.1, I can not turn a reverse canopy turn into a spiral. There's just too much inversion/momentum loss happening to translate into a spiral, for me at least.Peacemike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ramon 0 #10 December 14, 2001 A wingover is a paragliding maneuver. where they dive pull out of it, gain altitude and turn a 180 or so back into a dive before they stall.ramon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ramon 0 #11 December 14, 2001 Forgot to mentionstalling the canopy and letting go of one of the toggles is called a stall turn.I would on recommend doing them in a triathlon/omega/spectre type seven cells that recovery quickly and square from such a maneuver.My friend Walt Appel does them all the time. beginestall and let one toggle up Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites alan 1 #12 December 15, 2001 Exactly Ramon. He may also be confusing a wing over with a barrel roll, where you dive, pull out of it and do a 360 towards the horizon, going inverted and coming back to level flight towards the horizon again on the same heading as the climb was initiated.alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
cobaltdan 0 #5 December 13, 2001 canopies can react in undesirable ways when in a stall...most especially when in a stall with a sudden change in input.please practice stalls with slow inputs: risers and toggles.explore the flight and control envelope of your canopy with progressive input.sincerely,danatair Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveMonkey 0 #6 December 13, 2001 I don't really intend on doing this as i sounds a bit dodgy, but I just wanted to know exactly what happens. I skydive, therefore I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Kirils 1 #7 December 13, 2001 I know a "wing-over" as pendulum type manuver that swings you over the top of the canopy, kinda like a loop. It's accomplished by alternating toggles. Your path is like tracing a mobius strip. If the G force is high enough you will invert and not fall into the canopy. A fellow from my DZ did it with my HeatWave at a 1:1 loading. He went to the apex, the canopy collapsed and he fell off to one side of the bottom of the canopy. Luckily it cleared, but it was a very low pull. I personally haven't done it under canopy, but as a former pilot I would pull the nose high and use rudder to kick the plane over (like going into a spin) then neutralize with opposite rudder. It was like doing a cartwheel. Skydiving is not a static excercise with discrete predictability... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #8 December 13, 2001 I did something like that (the pendulum type manuver) jumping a couple weeks ago. I had pulled a bit higher then usual (I was in the saddle at about 3.5k) so I thought I would play. I pulled the right toggle to start a good ol' spiral, at about the top of the swing to the left, I pulled the left toggle fairly quickly to swing me the other way (trying to get a real fast dive/turn/spiral). Well, it started very well and then my canopy collapsed in on it's self and my lines twisted. Luckly for me, the canopy started to spin and dive (sarcasm), but a couple pulls on the rear risers and the canopy fixed its self (right before I cut away). After all of this I had lost 1k of altitude, atleast I was still at 2k, though. Well, until my canopy went to crap, it was pretty cool, I was in a pretty steep dive and starting a turn real fast. I don't think I'm going to try that again, atleast not like, though.AggieDave '02-------------Blue Skies and Gig'em Ags!BTHO t.u. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnischalke 0 #9 December 13, 2001 Reverse canopy turns kick ass!! It's in the new ISP and four are required for an A. I started doing them on jump 12 or so and fell in love. I have had to look up and to the right to see the ground. (if someone can go further inverted, be my guest. I won't.) I have not had a collapse yet, I think due to easy toggle input both going in and coming out. I usually hit the transition rather quickly but never hold the thing for more than a 180. I have felt the rapid deceleration at about 150 degrees that told me I was going to leave that apex involuntarily if I didn't ease out of it soon. It is super cool if done correctly. I know on my Silhouette at 1.1, I can not turn a reverse canopy turn into a spiral. There's just too much inversion/momentum loss happening to translate into a spiral, for me at least.Peacemike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ramon 0 #10 December 14, 2001 A wingover is a paragliding maneuver. where they dive pull out of it, gain altitude and turn a 180 or so back into a dive before they stall.ramon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ramon 0 #11 December 14, 2001 Forgot to mentionstalling the canopy and letting go of one of the toggles is called a stall turn.I would on recommend doing them in a triathlon/omega/spectre type seven cells that recovery quickly and square from such a maneuver.My friend Walt Appel does them all the time. beginestall and let one toggle up Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites alan 1 #12 December 15, 2001 Exactly Ramon. He may also be confusing a wing over with a barrel roll, where you dive, pull out of it and do a 360 towards the horizon, going inverted and coming back to level flight towards the horizon again on the same heading as the climb was initiated.alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Kirils 1 #7 December 13, 2001 I know a "wing-over" as pendulum type manuver that swings you over the top of the canopy, kinda like a loop. It's accomplished by alternating toggles. Your path is like tracing a mobius strip. If the G force is high enough you will invert and not fall into the canopy. A fellow from my DZ did it with my HeatWave at a 1:1 loading. He went to the apex, the canopy collapsed and he fell off to one side of the bottom of the canopy. Luckily it cleared, but it was a very low pull. I personally haven't done it under canopy, but as a former pilot I would pull the nose high and use rudder to kick the plane over (like going into a spin) then neutralize with opposite rudder. It was like doing a cartwheel. Skydiving is not a static excercise with discrete predictability... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #8 December 13, 2001 I did something like that (the pendulum type manuver) jumping a couple weeks ago. I had pulled a bit higher then usual (I was in the saddle at about 3.5k) so I thought I would play. I pulled the right toggle to start a good ol' spiral, at about the top of the swing to the left, I pulled the left toggle fairly quickly to swing me the other way (trying to get a real fast dive/turn/spiral). Well, it started very well and then my canopy collapsed in on it's self and my lines twisted. Luckly for me, the canopy started to spin and dive (sarcasm), but a couple pulls on the rear risers and the canopy fixed its self (right before I cut away). After all of this I had lost 1k of altitude, atleast I was still at 2k, though. Well, until my canopy went to crap, it was pretty cool, I was in a pretty steep dive and starting a turn real fast. I don't think I'm going to try that again, atleast not like, though.AggieDave '02-------------Blue Skies and Gig'em Ags!BTHO t.u. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnischalke 0 #9 December 13, 2001 Reverse canopy turns kick ass!! It's in the new ISP and four are required for an A. I started doing them on jump 12 or so and fell in love. I have had to look up and to the right to see the ground. (if someone can go further inverted, be my guest. I won't.) I have not had a collapse yet, I think due to easy toggle input both going in and coming out. I usually hit the transition rather quickly but never hold the thing for more than a 180. I have felt the rapid deceleration at about 150 degrees that told me I was going to leave that apex involuntarily if I didn't ease out of it soon. It is super cool if done correctly. I know on my Silhouette at 1.1, I can not turn a reverse canopy turn into a spiral. There's just too much inversion/momentum loss happening to translate into a spiral, for me at least.Peacemike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ramon 0 #10 December 14, 2001 A wingover is a paragliding maneuver. where they dive pull out of it, gain altitude and turn a 180 or so back into a dive before they stall.ramon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ramon 0 #11 December 14, 2001 Forgot to mentionstalling the canopy and letting go of one of the toggles is called a stall turn.I would on recommend doing them in a triathlon/omega/spectre type seven cells that recovery quickly and square from such a maneuver.My friend Walt Appel does them all the time. beginestall and let one toggle up Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alan 1 #12 December 15, 2001 Exactly Ramon. He may also be confusing a wing over with a barrel roll, where you dive, pull out of it and do a 360 towards the horizon, going inverted and coming back to level flight towards the horizon again on the same heading as the climb was initiated.alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
