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xijonix

When to disconnect your RSL

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We had a lot of students come through AFF this summer as well as an influx of low time jumpers calling our DZ home which has caused lots of questions to circle around. The most common of them has been when it would be appropriate to disconnect their RSL. Aside from camera flying and CREW, in what circumstances or low-speed mals should someone be disconnecting their RSL?

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if you know you're landing in water/top of building/high winds, it might be worth a moment after you go past "no-cutawy-altitude". It might be tricky since you're probably low, so do that only if you can afford it, but it is a good idea to at least consider that. IMHO of course.
I'm standing on the edge
With a vision in my head
My body screams release me
My dreams they must be fed... You're in flight.

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For new jumpers and students: make sure they understand what an RSL is, and how to hook and unhook it (USPA A license requirement) and how to identify thst it is correctly hooked up and won't kill you (i.e. it should be hooked to its own loop, not any part of the 3 ring release, not wrapped around the riser, further specific questions go to a rigger who can see what you're seeing).

The ONLY time RSL stuff comes into play at that stage is landing related - to give you the option to ditch the main if it is dragging you off a roof or down stream in a river. In both those instances, stress that:
1. It's way easier to land near an obstacle than on top of it, plan the fuck ahead.
2. If you are on top of a roof, be careful, your saftey is #1.

I always take the opportunity when talking about obstacle landings to ask questions to the jumper to gauge their understanding. What would happen on a roof if you left the rsl connected and cut away? (Not much = dont jump in extreme winds and dont worry about the if youre busy trying to land on a roof). What is easier than landing in a river? (Landing in the field next to it).How much notice do you have that you will be landing on any obstacle? (Plenty!!! Plan for landings. Stick to a decision altitude that gives you time to determine where to land after an emergency. Know the area you're jumping in, where the outs are, and what areas have obstacles - i.e. at my home dz there are very few options to the north, so watch out for winds that push north, don't track north on tracking dives, etc).

Proper gear understanding is most important here. There is no reason to disconnect the RSL in normal jumping conditions. Show them the RSL lanyard snd be sure they understand what it does and doesnt do.

If you want to do CRW, get a coach and use proper gear (trailing pilot chutes kill). If you want to do no-contact CRW, get a briefing so you undetstand why trailing pilot chutes kill (and other safety concerns that will kill you).

When you are near 200 jumps and want to jump a camera, talk to an experienced camera flier to understand the risks and complications (i.e an expert, not the guy with 5 camera jumps).

Good coaching is easy to come by if you're nice, not an asshole to your rigger or coach, offer beer/food/something, and are respectful of their time (which is more important than yours when you want something from them - planning ahead helps). New jumpers need to know that too :)

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radical_flyer

***trailing pilot chutes kill



Why is that?

If you are doing CReW, you don't want a foot (or anything else) wrapped up in someone else's bridle.
It's flare not flair, brakes not breaks, bridle not bridal, "could NOT care less" not "could care less".

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^^^ also if you're not doing crew and are just "flying close" to each other, or walking on each other's parachutes, bumping end cells, etc, it applies. All it takes is one little mistake since those pilot chutes trail a long way behind your parachutes. If you are flying close, get a bit too close, and turn away... theres the long bridle and pc that has to clear the other person and parachute. If that pilot chute tangles with another jumper (or worse, their parachute), there is nothing you can do to fix it. Cutting away may save you (if you have altitude), but you're going to cover your friend in a whole bunch of nylon and hope they climb out of it... not a good situation at all. All this stuff is covered in a good pre-crew briefing.

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................
I'm not sure I'd even put camera flying in that category. I had a conversation with Red one time on that very topic. He described the type of rigs they used to jump 'back in the day' that were riser magnets getting slapped all the time. They never had snag issues. His reasoning was if you did get a main snag on you helmet your neck would probably take some or all of that opening shock and the RSL wouldn't really matter because your neck would snap.
................................................................

Modern GoPro mounts are still snagalicious!
At a recent USPA Board Meeting, they discussed recurring problems with AFF students tossing pilot-chutes in instructor's faces and said pilot-chutes snagging on GoPro mounts with built-in snag points.
Most GoPro mounts are snagalicious!
The only GoPro mount I would trust is the Cookie Revolve mount because most lines will slide off.
The ideal GoPro mount would "submerge" into the front of the helmet to eliminate snag risks.

As for SLs, the only time I disconnect mine is if I am landing in high winds or close to obstacles. Please note that I said "landing close to obstacles" because I have only landed on one obstacle during 38 years of jumping ..... miserable spotting and wind shifts forced us to land in the water beside a nude beach .... my jump-suit blew off and it was all terribly embarrassing.
Hah!
Hah!

The Sigma manual says to disconnect you RSL if a vidiot entangles with your drogue ...... as part of the process of pulling handles down your right side: dis-connect RSL, pull cutaway handle, pull drogue release, pull other drogue release, track away from mess, pull reserve ripcord, curse vidiot, etc.
I find it easier to film my own students with a hand-cam.

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That'd be "Cookie Roller mount". There's clearly something about "Cookie Revolve", it's the second time you've made up that name. You should probably ask Cookie to make an actual product with that name :)
"Skydivers are highly emotional people. They get all excited about their magical black box full of mysterious life saving forces."

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DBCOOPER

Two out.



Except when you have a downplane. Then you immediately cut it the f*ck away... You have no time to mess around disconnecting stuff.
"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom

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Unless you're jumping a Racer. In that case, you do disconnect the RSL, unless you like having the main choke your reserve (or are very confident that you accounted for the exact order they opened in).
"Skydivers are highly emotional people. They get all excited about their magical black box full of mysterious life saving forces."

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mathrick

Unless you're jumping a Racer. In that case, you do disconnect the RSL, unless you like having the main choke your reserve (or are very confident that you accounted for the exact order they opened in).



Which should be second nature for you, since you've disconnected your Racer RSL (both sides) after each and every confirmation of a good canopy (if I recall the mfg's instructions correctly)... Riiiiight??

JW
Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

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Di0

if you know you're landing in water/top of building/high winds, it might be worth a moment after you go past "no-cutawy-altitude". It might be tricky since you're probably low, so do that only if you can afford it, but it is a good idea to at least consider that. IMHO of course.

I like your advice on this one. Disconnecting the RSL in high wind conditions used to be in the tandem manual.

Disconnecting the RSL in a 2 out situation is recommended by the SIM, correct? But I would argue that's only necessary if you're jumping a Racer with the dual RSL.

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fcajump


Which should be second nature for you, since you've disconnected your Racer RSL (both sides) after each and every confirmation of a good canopy (if I recall the mfg's instructions correctly)... Riiiiight??

Although I've owned a couple of Racers, it was before RSLs. Is that really the SOP, disconnect after canopy check? Darn, then you have a canopy collision, a low cutaway, and no RSL to back you up when you made need it the most.

Please correct me if I misunderstood the recommended procedure.

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Baksteen

***Two out.



Except when you have a downplane. Then you immediately cut it the f*ck away... You have no time to mess around disconnecting stuff

Agreed. Most downplanes result from an AAD fire below 1000'. Things happen very fast and often the harness is twisting around you as the 2 canopies play tug-of-war with you in the middle. Not a time for fine motor control. [:/]

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A few years ago we were doing fairly low hop and pops below a low cloud layer. One jumper did a long delay and his AAD fired as his main deployed. I watched between my toes as he piled into the ground in a down plane, receiving serious injuries ( he's since made a good recovery :)
The next day, we're jumping from 5,500', again due to clouds. I heard 2 younger jumpers, about 50-60 jumps each, discussing turning off their AADs because of what happened on the jump the day before. I asked them what altitude they planned to open at. They replied "3500'." I explained to them why they should leave them on.

My point (and I do have one :D) is that if you're considering making a jump where you need to turn off or disconnect some of your safety equipment, maybe you should consider NOT making that jump. Maybe. :)

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JohnMitchell

***
Which should be second nature for you, since you've disconnected your Racer RSL (both sides) after each and every confirmation of a good canopy (if I recall the mfg's instructions correctly)... Riiiiight??

Although I've owned a couple of Racers, it was before RSLs. Is that really the SOP, disconnect after canopy check? Darn, then you have a canopy collision, a low cutaway, and no RSL to back you up when you made need it the most.

Please correct me if I misunderstood the recommended procedure.

(Unfortunately short on time today, but I've cobbled together a couple references that support and undermine my statement above...)

Long discussion including some participation from Jump Shack personnel on the issue here:
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=4711835;page=1;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;

An unscientific poll on the issue:
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4734272;search_string=racer%20rsl;#4734272

I think this is the current manual:
http://www.plabsinc.com/resources/Racer+Owners+Manual+PDF+2015+smaller+file+size.pdf

The statement in the manual that I can find on short order:
Quote

Students should be additionally trained to release
both sides of the cross connector, from the main risers,
upon confirmation of a fully inflated and functioning
canopy over their head. That canopy will
hopefully be the main. However, if an AAD misfire
occurred at precisely the wrong moment or the reserve
were activated in any manner at that critical
time, it could be the reserve canopy. By deactivating
the cross connector, the main, which would be
inflated and trailing behind the reserve, could be
cutaway safely. This deactivation procedure would
also prepare the main for cutaway, during ground
drag, after landing.



While I am not finding it as the recommendations for all jumpers on every jump, it was my recollection that that was the bottom line from the factory during that discussion.

I have my own opinion on the issue, and have no problem with others who disagree. But I think everyone who jumps a Racer should know and understand how they are different and what proceedures will endanger you on this rig vs other's the jumper may be familiar with using.

JW
Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

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Baksteen

Interesting. :|

Is this dual RSL-related, or Racer-specific?



It is Racer-specific, and related to dual RSL :). It applies if and only if you're jumping dual RSL setup, in which case you must do it or you risk your bad canopy taking your last good canopy with it. If you jump a Racer without RSL or with single-side RSL, the procedure does not apply. I believe this is regardless of whether it's a factory-fitted single-side RSL (these arguably exist), or a cross-connector connected on both sides to the same riser (which is an authorised method of connecting the dual RSL). My understanding is that either gives you an effectively single-side RSL that is not liable to choke off your reserve.
"Skydivers are highly emotional people. They get all excited about their magical black box full of mysterious life saving forces."

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John,

I absolutely agree with you on that; if there is a condition that is affecting your decision of disabling a safety feature on the ground than that should be evidence enough that you shouldn't be making the jump at all.

I suppose my question is geared more toward those scenarios that were not expected or foreseeable such as a severe increase in surface winds once already under canopy or malfunctions where, altitude permitting, it would be beneficial to disconnect the RSL. We had a jumper who during a sunset high pull ended up spinning on his back with line twists. When he cut away, one of the lines snagged on the container but was easily managed because he did not jump with an RSL and thus he didn't have a reserve out to get entangled with the hung main. Very similar to what we saw here. https://jointheteem.com/sky/friday-freakout/friday-freakout-skydiver-survives-terrifying-double-parachute-malfunction/

It's scenarios like that which make me question whether under certain conditions it would be better to disconnect prior to a cutaway.

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xijonix



I suppose my question is geared more toward those scenarios that were not expected or foreseeable such as a severe increase in surface winds once already under canopy

Definitely agree with and practice this myself. ;)


Quote

or malfunctions where, altitude permitting, it would be beneficial to disconnect the RSL. We had a jumper who during a sunset high pull ended up spinning on his back with line twists. When he cut away, one of the lines snagged on the container but was easily managed because he did not jump with an RSL and thus he didn't have a reserve out to get entangled with the hung main. Very similar to what we saw here. https://jointheteem.com/sky/friday-freakout/friday-freakout-skydiver-survives-terrifying-double-parachute-malfunction/

It's scenarios like that which make me question whether under certain conditions it would be better to disconnect prior to a cutaway.

12+ cutaways, some with RSLs, some without, I still think the odds favor those who jump RSLs. Catching the lines on the container? Wow, I can't imagine that happening to me . . . (knocking on wood) :o

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Lines catching on containers is usually due to sloppy packing.
Circa 1980, trash-packing was fashionable and deployment bags were optional, do some jumpers just "figure-8ed" their lines in the main pack tray. That packing method worked great until some lines half-hitched around a side-flap.
For some silly reason, during the 1990s, it became fashionable to bend main suspension lines around the lower corner of the resrve container. After resewing reserve containers back onto: Javelin, Sidewinder. Talon and Vector, I convinced the Sidewinder factory to add triangular "line guides" to the lower corner of their reserve containers.

Grommet mania 2000.

Now that more and more pond-swoopers are leaving more and more lines unstowed, we an expect another iteration of this foolishness.

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Dear Mathrick,
We realize that English is not your first language, but we should still be careful about terminology.

A variety of RSLs try to solve the problem of ensuring that both main risers are released before deploying the reserve .. with varying degrees of success.

The only "dual RSL" rig that I have packed was an Atom made by Parachutes de France. The French L.O.R. system has two separate RSLs. The Atom reserve is held closed by two curved pins inserted into separate closing loops. Both closing loops are routed up through a single stack of grommets. Each pin is connected to a separate RSL which is attached to a different main riser. Both pins need to be pulled before the reserve container will open. L.O.R. pins can be pulled by RSLs or the reserve ripcord handle.

Sigma uses a variation on the L.O.R. system, but only one pin and only one RSL. That single RSL is only attached to the right main riser. When you pull the cutaway handle on a Sigma, both cutaway cables fall away. As the right riser releases and the Collins Lanyard pulls the cutaway cable to the left riser. The Collins Lanyard ensures that both risers release before the reserve pin is pulled.

Racers use "cross-connector" RSLs that is attached to both main risers and routes under the reserve ripcord. Both main risers need to leave before there is sufficient tension to pull the ripcord. The disadvantage is that - in some circumstances - a cross-connector might choke off the reserve (e.g. main released after the reserve has deployed.)

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I was following suit, since the question, as formulated, was specifically about "dual RSL", and it's a fairly typical usage when talking about the Racer setup. The Jump Shack themselves use both "double-sided RSL" and "cross-connector" when referring to it in their various materials. It was not related to my grasp of the English language. I fully agree that precision is important though.

Conversely, I wouldn't agree that Collins Lanyard is a variant of LOR2. It uses different principles that result in different observable behaviour in various scenarios. Most importantly, in the case of a broken riser (which is what all of these 3 systems seek to address), a Collins Lanyard system will release the other riser and activate the reserve if it was the RSL riser that broke, and do nothing otherwise requiring manual cutaway, whereas a LOR2 system will do nothing regardless of which riser breaks (because both risers are "RSL risers"). Similarly, Collins Lanyard can (and in a couple very rare cases, did) release the main unintentionally, although luckily no fatalities resulted from that to my knowledge. LOR2 has no potential for that. Collins Lanyard can also be integrated into a MARD (albeit only Skyhook, due to licensing, not due to physics), whereas LOR2 doesn't seem compatible with any such system. Lastly, they're both patented I believe, so clearly they must be distinct ;)

I have personally changed stance on the safety of the Racer cross-connector setup. I used to think it was manageable and only really applicable in scenarios where the jumper has already messed up by pulling after AAD has fired, thus having a minimal impact on the safety of a responsible jumper. However, the video I linked made me realise that a variety of other scenarios result in exactly equivalent deployment order, and it's not necessarily obvious or easy to think them through in the split-second decisions needed when dealing with emergencies. Consequently, I no longer consider a cross-connector equipped Racer safe to jump and would not jump one myself.

My preferred method of dealing with riser breakage is primarily better engineering and materials which made riser breakages a thing of the past on sports rig (tandems are a different beast, due to the flipped rings being way more common), and RSL rings being attached below the break point, so that RSL will not activate even if the riser breaks. This seems to have most upsides and least potentially deadly upsides, although my current rig is equipped with a Skyhook, and consequently also Collins Lanyard.

P.S. I prefer my nickname to be spelt all-lowercase, ie. "mathrick", rather than "Mathrick". Thanks :)
"Skydivers are highly emotional people. They get all excited about their magical black box full of mysterious life saving forces."

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mathrick


Conversely, I wouldn't agree that Collins Lanyard is a variant of LOR2.



I agree with you there. Unless I am missing something, systems with collins lanyard and LOR have almost nothing in common:

-Systems with collins lanyard have:
1) Single RSL lanyard
2) Single riser attachment (unlike Racers with a single RSL lanyard but connected to both risers)
3) Single pin (thus single loop)
4) Release the non-RSL riser if the RSL riser was released before

-Systems with LOR:
1) Double RSL lanyard
2) Attached to both risers
3) Two straight pins
4) The release of one riser does not release the other

Moreover the pins are straight, not curved as rigerrob stated. They DO have a slight curvature from the eyelet where the lanyards are attached to the straight section of the pin, similar to new vector pins, but they are not curved like the pins in main trays in rigs with throw out deployment systems.

mathrick


Collins Lanyard can also be integrated into a MARD (albeit only Skyhook, due to licensing, not due to physics)



That's not true. Sife rigs (www.sife.at) and SWS rigs (http://sws.aero/) both have collins lanyard and pin-based MARDs (RAX and DRD respectively). Admittedly, I don't know if they are simply ignoring licensing issues.

BTW: I wish other manufacturers would follow suit and have a detailed website like SWS. Despite their english ("Semi-explosive Pilot Chute of Reserve" is the title of one section), they have made a remarkable effort to explain various technical details.

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