Test Jump w/o Cypres?????

[PhillyKev 0]

Well, now you're adding in circumstances outside the norm (e.g. if doing CReW, I'd turn off the AAD). Would you jump from altitude on a "normal" jump without a reserve?

The answer to the question is moot. I'm using this analogy to your post to illustrate why I don't think your statement is "common sense", or for that matter, logical, IMO.

[rgoper 0]

Quote

Well, now you're adding in circumstances outside the norm

us "texas boys" call this "crawfishing" come now, let's not do that! but to answer your question legitimately, yes, i would jump from altitude without a reserve, "IF" i could, but i can't according to the F.A.R.S. essentially, that's what were all doing anyway, your reserve is only a "backup" NOT a "sure thing" there is no guarantee that it is going to work. please, by all means sir, correct me if i have made yet another mistake!

let me add, that it is my belief that the only thing that keeps man inventing safety devices is twofold:
1) to keep from being sued
2) the fear of dying

i have neither concern. but i will try to preserve my life as long as i can, out of respect for my religion, and my fellow man.

--Richard--
"We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

[skymedic 0]

Quote

If you plan on jumping without a Cypres, then keep your dives simple. i.e. hop-and-pops. Plan the dive so there will be no-one else near you and warn the pilot that you plan to open high.
To improve your odds of performing correctly, review reserve procedures before boarding the airplane.

your kidding right???........

I mean...come on...I dont jump a cypres...not cause I dont want one...but because I want to skydive..not sit on the ground waiting to save up the money to buy one. I think my currency stands a better chance of saving my ass than a cypres will....nothing against aad's....

Marc
otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman....

[Ducky 0]

Like I said I was NOT trying to open this up for a "Cypres or Not?" debate. Just looking for specific input on a specific scenario.


kwak

Sometimes your the bug, sometimes your the windshield. Sometimes your the hammer sometimes your the nail. Question is Hun, Do you wanna get hammered or do you wanna get nailed?????

[skymedic 0]

Duckman....

just jump the fricken rig.....NOT a big deal...I jump mine without a cypres...as I dont own a cypres...

Marc
otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman....

[Jessica 0]

Quote

your kidding right???........

Haha...that post was so dripping with sarcasm some got on my keyboard. Ew.

Skydiving is for cool people only

[beowulf 1]

I currently have 115 jumps and dont have a cypres so I really dont see why you wouldnt jump with out one. I dont worry about getting knocked unconcious or for some other reason not being able to pull my reserve. I dont mind risking my life. I personally feel the amount of risk without a cypres is acceptable and that is what it all comes down to. What is acceptable risk to you, not what someone else considers acceptable. If you jump with a cypres the risk of death is less then if you jump with out one. How much less depends on who you talk to. Its up to you and how much risk you are willing to take.

[DanG 1]

I think you should do a bunch of test jumps on the rig without the Cypres. But you should do solos, wear a helmet, and open high. Why? Because you have relatively low experience, and are jumping unfamiliar gear with, presumably, an unfamiliar canopy. I wouldn't worry about the knocked out scenario as much as the crash landing scenario.

No one with any sense demo's gear by doing a 20-way headdown with no helmet and dumping at 2 grand. Take some jumps to get used to the gear in a safe manner, but don't worry about the lack of Cypres.

- Dan G

- Dan G

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

You know, I jumped nearly 20 years without an AAD of any sort. You could "what if" this to death, but in the end, if you don't have confidence in your own ability and the airworthiness of your gear then you probably ought not be skydiving. The sport has inherent risks that will not go away no matter how safe you think you are. I see no reason whatsoever that you shouldn't go ahead and jump that rig.

Chuck

[gmac324 0]

Richard,
If you jumped without a reserve, You would be dead right now.

[nicknitro71 0]

***
I think my currency stands a better chance of saving my ass than a cypres will....nothing against aad's....

With all the respect, how can your currency help you if you are knocked unconscious? That's what an AAD should be for: those times you don't pull because there is nobody there to pull other than a chip!

Memento Audere Semper

903

[Remster 24]

dont you hate getting your keyboard messed up by some cyber-sarcasm....
thats why I have some kleenex next to the PC...


On a more to the point note,

Richard,
comparing the use of a reserve and the use of an AAD is more then stretching the argument a little. Mains and main activation systems fuck up all the time. As Graeme pointed out, yours did last week.

Most of us, while not expecting a reserve ride on every jump, expect it on any jump. That's why we look like bookmakers (or 3 base coaches) on the way to the plane making weird moves with our hands.
Getting in a position where you need an AAD is much less likely.

Then again, maybe I misread you post and missed the sarcasm of your post's bravado....


PS: if you get a BASE rig and treat it as a rig without a reserve, good luck. Its more like a rig without a main. Might sound like nit-picking, but its a considerable difference.

Remster

[Blinky 0]

Why wouldn't you want your cypress on for a hop 'n' pop? If there's any liklihood of doing more than 78mph by the time you get to 750 feet surely it's worth having a cypress? My rough calculations are that you'd have to be popping at about 1500 for a cypress to not be worthwhile - is this what you mean by a 'low' hopn pop?
Not having a go - just want to understand - I did my first hop n' pop on Sunday from 3500 and it was AWESOME so will be doing more!

[PhreeZone 14]

Well, I've been on jump runs at 2400 before. The thing to realize with the cypres is due to how it works as soon as you are stood up under canopy the low pressure on your back (burble) is gone and the cypres thinks its about 300-400 feet lower then it actually is. So that means at 1000-1100 feet the cypres could fire if you are just coming out of snivel. Take a delay to get some speed, low jump run, snivelly canopy, etc all put you low. Its unlikely, but I'd rather not risk the 2 out in a case where we can only get under 2500 due to the clouds or something. If we know we are going above 3, sure why not leave it on?

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Samurai136 0]

The cypres also does not arm until 1500' agl.
Just make lower hop n pops.


You'd also only be at risk of a 2 out if you meet All 3 conditions of 'initial opening shock' AND 1000-1100agl AND faster than 35m/s. Presumably the remainder of snivels transpire at speeds under 35m/s and the cypres would only be 'tricked' into a false altitude reading for only the initial shock.

Cypres has an algorithm for deriving its real altitude and is smarter than that. Case in point. My cypres was turned on and I have exited the plane at 1600'agl delayed 6 sec, pulled, had a long snivel and still not had a cypres fire (2 out).

Ken

"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian
Ken

[dida 0]

Quote

So that means at 1000-1100 feet the cypres could fire if you are just coming out of snivel.

heya - i watched this happen on a helicopter jump from 2800 a few weeks back. he cut away his main and landed safely, but it sure drew a crowd.

my $.02 on the original question: i did my first 50 solo jumps on a rig without a cypres. i got so used to it, now that i have a rig with a cypres, most days i forget to turn it on for the first couple of jumps (i always think about it on the ride to altitude...oops! a little late now...)

i do a lot of things that people might find foolish or risky, but it's my life that i'm living and the choice is mine. the same goes for you - you know where your comfort zone is and how far you're willing to push the boundaries. if you truly in your gut feel you shouldn't jump without the cypres, then don't.

spiral out...keep going...

[skymedic 0]

Quote

With all the respect, how can your currency help you if you are knocked unconscious? That's what an AAD should be for: those times you don't pull because there is nobody there to pull other than a chip

because the number one thing that injures and kills skydivers is lack of currency...if it's been a while since your last jump you are not as safe as if you do 10 a week+.....the chances of me getting hurt or killed from lack of currency is much higher than the chance of me getting killed from getting knocked unconscious....


2nd thing....Remmy's right...rgoper....you need to remember that it is not a rig without a main...or a rig without a reserve.....it is what is is....a BASE rig. a WHOLE new realm....you must pack it right every time....period!!!!

Marc
otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman....

[wildblue 4]

[lobbing flame gernade]Well, as long as you have an RSL, you should be ok[/lobbing flame gernade]

C'mon, that was almost as good as "... just keep the dive simple, do only hop n pops..." blah blah blah.

It's all personal. If you don't feel comfortable jumping it, then don't. I'm one of those people that will look at you funny, and ask how much you rely on it. But, there's other people out there that would agree with your side of it, and say "well it's just in case, and that 'in-case' scares me"

Maybe once people realize that this is not a right/wrong issue, and that everyone has their own opinion, and just because it's yours doesn't make it right.... maybe then we can bury this rotting equine carcass.

it's like incest - you're substituting convenience for quality

[MarkM 0]

Hey look, a Cypres debate!

[freeflir29 0]

Dude...DON'T jump wiothout the Cypres. If you do you'll end up wondering why you spent all that money in the first place!!!

[billvon 2,380]

>Why wouldn't you want your cypress on for a hop 'n' pop?

Because they can, and have, misfired. If it's a hop and pop from an otter, the odds of 'getting knocked out' are astronomical, and may be less than the odds of having a misfire and therefore having two canopies out, which is bad.

[billvon 2,380]

>With all the respect, how can your currency help you if you are
> knocked unconscious?

Because it is your skill in the air, and your good judgement on the ground, that prevents you from getting 'knocked unconscious' in the first place. Current jumpers have better air skills and judgement than uncurrent jumpers.

[billvon 2,380]

>My question is about maybe just one jump without??

I'll put it a different way - I _encourage_ people to consider jumping without a cypres at least once. In a way it's a test - if someone refuses to do even a hop and pop from an otter without a cypres, there's a chance they are relying on the device for far more than it can give.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Even though I'm just a newbie to the sport (who has yet to jump without a Cypres). I like to compare the use of them to using an air bag in our cars. It's a nice piece of insurance to have if something nasty happens, but the Cypres nor the air bag are not needed in terms of operating the equipment to do the activity and yes being current is extremely important.
In other words ... would I drive a car without an air bag? The answer is yes. My '89 Supra doesn't have an air bag while my '99 Wrangler does have one. So would I jump without a Cypres? My preference would be to jump with one (hence my new rig once I finally get it will have one). But the ultimate answer would be yes I would jump without a Cypres. But would I jump without a reserve? Hell no ...

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Ducky 0]

Quote

I'll put it a different way - I _encourage_ people to consider jumping without a cypres at least once. In a way it's a test - if someone refuses to do even a hop and pop from an otter without a cypres, there's a chance they are relying on the device for far more than it can give.

AS usual Billvon has insight for us all. I have decided that I would jump w/o the cypres, but on a regular basis I would like to have it.

If no other reason thatn this::: It's kinda like a thing that happened back in highschool... I'm on my way out to a party on friday night and mom asks "Are you gonna be drinking tonight?" "of course not mom you know me I'm cool" Well it was pretty shitty when she had to come bail my drunkass out at 5am. Yes I know my capabilities and am aware of the dangers I face on every jump.

Unfortunately whuffo loved ones don't always have such an understanding. I am lucky that most people I care about support my skydiving. If some need a lil comforting (ie me using a cypres) to swallow it then why not? I do believe that is alot to ask of a whuffo to feel totally at ease about your jumping much less support it. Yes I am an adult, yes the financial responsibility is mine, heck all responsibility is mine. I also realize there are just as many skydivers who cannot even begin to understand my reasoning and I am fine with that. There expertise and opinions do nothing but further educate me about safety in the sport we all love.

kwak

Sometimes your the bug, sometimes your the windshield. Sometimes your the hammer sometimes your the nail. Question is Hun, Do you wanna get hammered or do you wanna get nailed?????