Para Commander jump

[nicknitro71 0]

Although I was trained on rounds I have never jumped a Para Commander until yesterday. Well, it was a 24' yellow Para Commander, one of the newer ones with the diper and the reserve on top it, not in front. I exited at 5K sit making sure I was right above the DZ. It was kind of hard to keep the sit due to the lose harness and all the weight on my back. I got belly down at 3500 and deployed at 3K at full terminal. The opening was nice and soft. I was very surprised about it. The PC has two toggles that pivots the chute with the softest pressure you can imagine. Although it has some foward speed, at the end of each pivot, reather than turn, the canopy gains some extra foward speed like a square but w/out the loss of altitude. As for the landing, I remebered my training, so about 20' above the ground I grabbed both rear rises and pull them down. I realesed them right before hitting the ground. The landing was relativly soft and I believe I could have stood it up but I did not try. On top of that I landed right where I wanted to.

Overall I was quite impressed by this round. It makes a fun canopy for demostrations on light wind days. If you know anybody who is selling one (full newer system) please let me know.

Memento Audere Semper

903

[ernokaikkonen 0]

This post made me wonder. How old are the newest PCs, and how long will it be safe to jump them? I would imagine the fabric and lines won't last forever.

I've heard the riggers rule of thumb "Don't pack any parahute older than yourself", and I think that it's safe to extend to "Don't jump any parahute older than yourself", but I'm not sure I'd have the balls to jump something made in 1976...

Erno

[nicknitro71 0]

The parachute and reserve and container and harness and the whole nine yards ware inspected by a master rigger. The system looks good and does not have many jumps.

Memento Audere Semper

903

[skreamer 1]

Were you sit-flying in this rig or did I just misread your first post?

[howardwhite 4]

If youo do a Google search on Paracommander, you'll see a number of posts from people who have done the same thing. I see one or two PC jumps a year (and have made at least 1,500). The problem for modern use is that you need a harness and container big enough and capable of accepting Capewell releases. The PC container itself is about as big as today's student square main and reserve. At least one local former PC jumper has been grounded because no one will pack his chest-mount reserve.

But if the PC has been kept out of the sun, I don't see a problem with jumping a 20 or 30 year old canopy. (If you can stick your finger through the fabric, probably not a good idea.)

HW

[nicknitro71 0]

Yes I was sit flying for about 1500' (5k-3.5k) then I got belly down and pulled. The fabric looks very good. The harness and container is also a PC and as stated the reserve is like our modern gear, i.e. not chest-mounted.

Memento Audere Semper

903

[JohnRich 4]

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how long will it be safe to jump them? I would imagine the fabric and lines won't last forever... "Don't jump any parahute older than yourself"... Erno

If they've been stored properly (out of the sun, no moisture), then they're good for a long time. I just loaned my old PC to a friend who put a series of jumps on it for old times sake. That canopy is about 30 years old. They built them solid back then, with reinforcing tape on every seam - they weren't worried about light weight back then.

As long as the chute has been inspected by a competent rigger, there shouldn't be a problem with it. In the early 1980's I once had a reserve ride on a military surplus round chute made in 1957. No problem!

[councilman24 36]

In the early 1980's they were still selling PC's. The last version that I know of was know as an RW PC and was made out of F-111 instead of 1.5 oz fabric. Seems that it might have had smaller lines also. This was small enough to put in a bag and put in a large piggy back rig of the time. If you can find a rig big enough, there is no need for it to be on capewell risers as stated above. It's just that most rigs designed for the PC did have capewell hardware.

My first rig, which I still have, was a Security Crossbow container and Crossbow reserve with a Competition Paracommander (PC for those thinking we're jumping pilot chutes) in a sleeve with a PC pilot chute. This rig was last jumped about 1988 but is still airworthy. Right now it has a 24' T-10 reserve . I pull it out to show the newbies what a 50 lb rig looks like. And I make anybody I'm helping with a rigger rating pack it. The rig is a piggy back rig but the reserve container is essentially a chest mount reserve mount on the back. BTW the Crossbow reserve was essentially a 26' lopo, not a high performace round like the Crossbow main. The Crossbow reserve I have set up on three ring risers for people who want to jump a round. It fits in most medium modern containers. A couple of jumpers have rigs set up with PC's but few takers. We average two or three PC jumps a year at my small DZ.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[markbaur 0]

Quote

As for the landing, I remebered my training, so about 20' above the ground I grabbed both rear rises and pull them down. I realesed them right before hitting the ground. The landing was relativly soft and I believe I could have stood it up but I did not try.

When you pull down on the rear risers of a round parachute, you increase the descent rate. When you release the risers, your descent rate returns to what it was before. There may be some miniscule rebound effect like a yo-yo at the end of a string, and if your timing was exquisite you'd be landing while the rebound was up, but you're just as likely to land while the yo-yo is headed back down.

What makes landing a round hard is the same thing that makes landing a square hard. Your experience is with accelerating falls; you don't have much experience with constant-speed falls. The folks who have perfected the riser-snapping techniques have just made more constant-speed falls, and if they had done the same number of jumps trying stand-ups without riser flares, they'd have done just fine.

Mark

[steve1 5]

I used to land my Paracommander with rear risers, way back when. It seemed like I could get softer landings than using toggles, but most folks I knew would flare using toggles. I would suggest flaring lower than 20 feet though. If I remember right, on most jumps I'd flare around ten or twelve feet for landing. I'd reach up as high as I could on the rear risers and then do a chin up. Steve1

[howardwhite 4]

I don't recall that the term "flare" was in use in PC days. Certainly it wouldn't have the same meaning as with a square.

HW

[AggieDave 6]

I've got a friend who regularly jumps (couple times a month) his clown colored PC, his piglet, his terridactal (sp?) and his shortline PC (refered to as a RW rig?). All of it is vintage gear from the mid/early 70s and is still in really good shape. Neat stuff, I was supposed to get to jump the PC a few months ago, but really weird/gusty/variable winds prevented me.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[steve1 5]

Howard,
You're right on that one. I believe flare is a modern term. If I remember right paracommanders were supposed to have around 15 MPH forward speed. But this was probably under ideal conditions. Most of them seemed to fly slower than that. If you timed it right, when you put the brakes on, you could swing out for a fairly soft landing. French jump boots really helped me to stand up a lot of landings when I should have done a PLF.

[howardwhite 4]

"terridactal (sp?) "

Paradactyl. Probably the last attempt to popularize triangular canopies, but by no means the first. Developed by Jim Handbury, who made significant contributions to containers, canopies, hang gliding and BASE jumping. See Wendy Faulkner's page with pictures of one.

HW

[steve1 5]

I'm not familiar with the paradactyl (probably because I didn't jump from about 76 to 98), but I knew a girl in our club (in the 70's)who jumped a thunderbow canopy. It was triangular and seemed to open well. It had about the same forward speed as a paracommander. Steve1

[skreamer 1]

Wow, you went to terminal velocity in a sit wearing this rig???

You are a braver man than me...

[flyhi 24]

Quote

Paradactyl. Probably the last attempt to popularize triangular canopies, but by no means the first. Developed by Jim Handbury, who made significant contributions to containers, canopies, hang gliding and BASE jumping.

I bought my first PC back in 1977 from Lee Borden when he decided to switch to a Paradactyl. If anyone ever runs across a PC with an embroidered name tape on it that says "Blue Max", that's the one. I was jumping with a bunch of guys from the 10th Special Forces Group at the time and they all did the rear riser landing technique.

Shit happens. And it usually happens because of physics.

[Patkat 0]

Absolutely right - there is a jumper at Maytown who was jumping a PC in an Infinity container, on 3 ring risers, with a square reserve, no less! Dave Dewolf put the rig together fopr someone a while back, and he never picked it up, so he loaned it to Amy for a while - neat rig. Also, we got a bunch of the old stuff out and put together a six way formation load with all gutter gear - got five in, alomst six, and everything opened fine, and everyone landed safely (if off the DZ). I had a great ride on the two jumps I put on a PC. My only complaint was kneeling all the way to altitude b/c I was in the back of the plane!
-patkat

Patkat
gotta exercise my demons!

[freeflyswc 0]

Cool man , i've been thinking about making a pc jump , but never get around to it. At my home dz in Richmond during the boogie , some people did a 14 way round dive . after breakoff they tracked and pulled and two of them had mal's . So that kinda discouraged me a bit!

• Quote

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

Lovely days.... My first rig was a blue Mini System with a R/W/B Papillon. My dad still has that rig in his basement loft and it, as well as a PC he still has, get jumped a few times a year by young guys who have never jumped a round.

Here at the GB club, we have a pristine MC-4 (military version the PC) with only like five jumps on it now. Scott Sheck did like an 8.4 second hit and rock at the POPs nationals last month using it on the dummy load.

Chuck

[Zoltan 0]

You might know that there are two type of canopies on the world which are similar to the PC (easter block copy). The famous Russian UT-15 which was actualy better then PC and the Polish SW-5.

I jumped UT15 in Hungary this summer and it was a great canopy... i am not sure but it was not too old, max 10 years old... and as i know the russian philosophy of aviation industry this type is still under production
z

[cop 0]

Dam Zoltan, you are my hero! I'd like to see you writing in finnish again, please...

"You can call me Mike"

"You can call me Mike"

[Bruno 0]

Mark
Para Commander is not exactly a round canopy.
A round slow down de descent speed only by air drag The Para Commander slow down by drag and lift. It also has a valuable forward speed (compared with a round) that you must stop for landing.
So the correct technique for landing is to pull down both toggle, or rear riser, similar to square.
Bruno

[ernokaikkonen 0]

>Para Commander is not exactly a round canopy.

No, it's a round canopy with lots of holes!Pete's Paracommander ride

>A round slow down de descent speed only by air drag The Para
>Commander slow down by drag and lift

Really? I know squat about oldtime-gear, but I find it hard to believe that a PC would generate any lift like a "fast-flying wing type canopy" we are using today.

Erno

[Unutsch 0]

Here in Slovenia, Static Line training was made on round canopies all the way till 1996. The canopies were PS or PD from Kluz (those of you legends who were to the world meet in the 80's in Yugoslavia must remember them). In Zagreb, Croatia, the training is still made with them (I'm not sure about that, I was told by some guys from Croatia).

And every year we still have a Veteran Jumper Weekend where you can see these canopies in the air again.

I consider myself very lucky for not jumping any round canopy, hehe... I was the 2nd generation of newbies here in Maribor who started jumping with a SkyMaster from PISA.

But I had a reserve ride on the K1 system from Kluz. The reserve was round, and there was no 3-ring, but a system where the two risers were separately connected to the rig. When I landed, I got unconsious for a while from the impact. The wind carried me exactly over a village, I saw myself in the power lines, in the forrest, even on the tower of the church. But eventually I landed in a backyard some 8 x 12 meters. LUCKY ME!!!!!!!

Check out the site of the Fallen Angels FreeflY Organisation:
http://www.padliangeli.org