Tube stows and hop-n-pops

[lippy 771]

I'm cross-posting this in talkback, I'd really like some other opinions on what the hell happened here:
So yesterday, we just got up one last load before the sun went down. 4 hop-n-pops from 3 grand. Get out, toss, and then I get to the point where I know I should have a canopy over my head, but I don't. Look up to see a spinning d-bag over my head with the last 3 closing stows still done up. I had enough altitude to shake the canopy out, and be out of twists by 2100feet, about to shit myself. Back on the ground, I was told my tube stows might have had somthing to do with it. Apparently, if you're sub-terminal they tend to cause this kind of thing more than bungees. Anybody know if this is true, or just a beer-light revelation?

I got nuthin

[wlie 0]

Posted on Talkback and posting it here for relavence:
Never used tube-stows because bubber rands are cheaper.

Funny thing about bag locks, I experienced one on my sub 10 freefalls. Also from a hop-n-pop. The chute finally deployed on it's own, so I guess it might have to do with deploying at sub-terminal. Now the rubber bands on them student rigs were the black kind. The DZ recently switched to the yellow kind because the black kind doesn't break as easily after certain stretch length, thus causing bag locks.

You might also want to check you pilot chute. I imagine that if F111 canopies loose their ZP-ness, I'm sure the same applied to F111 PCs.

Your best source of info I think would be from your rigger.

[Hooknswoop 19]

Once again, tube stows getting a bad wrap. "They cause line dump because they don't hold the lines well enough" and they cause bag locks because they hold the lines too well" Can't have it both ways.

Sounds like you were simply sub-terminal and may want to have a rigger look over your PC. If it is a kill line, check to make sure the kill line is NOT taunt when you cock it. It should have a little play in it and the the load tapes from the bridle to the apex of the PC should be taunt, not the kill line.

Hook

[lippy 771]

Beleive me, as I was kicking out of my line twists I was cursing my PC. However, it isn't collapsable and I went straight to a rigger after I landed. He couldn't blow through it, and after giving it a fairly thorough looking over, said it was fine.

I got nuthin

[ernokaikkonen 0]

>should have a canopy over my head, but I don't. Look up to
> see a spinning d-bag over my head with the last 3 closing stows
> still done up. I had enough altitude to shake the canopy out,
>and be out of twists by 2100feet,

I had a similar mal a little over a year ago, but mine proceeded to go into a violent spin, so I had to cut it away.

The thing is; when I was packing the chute before the jump, I double-stowed the rubberband(regular yellow kind) on one of the locking-stows. As a student I was told to never ever do that. It was just too loose, and I was too lazy to change it... But then again, a lot of people double or triple-stow all their rubberbands without any problems. What's up with that?

Erno

[drenaline 0]

Quote

a lot of people double or triple-stow all their rubberbands without any problems. What's up with that?

I always double stow my mini rubberbands after 2 jumps (mini rubber bands when they are new are to strong to double), they told me that it helps the deployment to open softer.

HISPA 21
www.panamafreefall.com

[riggerrob 558]

Two points.
First, it seems that you can optimize a canopy for terminal openings or sub-terminal openings, but very few manufacturers know how to make canopies open consistently at both ends of the envelope.
For example, first generation tandem canopies were optimized for sub-terminal openings. If you took them to terminal velocity - and they were packed by anyone except god's gift to packing - they opened hard with big students. On the other hand, current generation SET 400s open so slowly at terminal velocity, that I do not dare try to open them sub-terminal.
Sounds like the original poster's problem was with an under-sized pilotchute.
Secondly, the most important factor in deciding whether or not to double wrap rubber bands, Tube Stows, Sky Bands, etc. is whether they are tight enough to hold the lines. If I am packing a canopy with skinny lines and I only have large rubber bands in my pocket, I routinely double or triple wrap them around lines. It has been years since I have seen a bag lock.

[VectorBoy 0]

the most important factor in deciding whether or not to double wrap rubber bands, Tube Stows, Sky Bands, etc. is whether they are tight enough to hold the lines. If I am packing a canopy with skinny lines and I only have large rubber bands in my pocket, I routinely double or triple wrap them around lines. It has been years since I have seen a bag lock.
What about the locking stows? Mine are what I would call soft, but I would never double stow them cuz it has been drilled into my brainnot to.Or should I be expirementing with double stowing the lockers? I have been getting brisk openings.

[ernokaikkonen 0]

>I routinely double or triple wrap them around lines. It has been
> years since I have seen a bag lock.

With the locking stows as well? Looks like students all across the globe are told not to double-wrap the locking stows. I was told that, and Vectorboy above has been told the same thing: Why?

Erno

[indyz 1]

Quote

I was told that, and Vectorboy above has been told the same thing: Why?

When I learned to pack I was told that it was because after the lines were pulled out of the band, a double or triple wrap could leave a "knot" in the band where the stow was wrapped, which might not fit through the grommet on the bag, thus baglock.

[lippy 771]

So last night I finally got around to packing my rig (or started to) the first time since the jump I posted about here. I couldn't finish cause I'm out of, you guessed it, TUBE STOWS, of which two were broken on my D-bag. They were the last and third last stows (from the packing side, first and third from the opening side) ie. non-closing stows. Is it possible that this is connected to the bag-lock?

I got nuthin

[dove 0]

Quote

Secondly, the most important factor in deciding whether or not to double wrap rubber bands, Tube Stows, Sky Bands, etc. is whether they are tight enough to hold the lines.

Thanks Rob. I always double-wrap my tube stoes (except the locking stoes) and have never had a problem. But people give me crap for it all the time. if I single-wrapped I would get line dump every time. I love tube stoes - they last a long time and don't shred my fingers the way rubber bands do. If they were as lethal as so many insist, they wouldn't still be on the market. To each his own.