small 3 ring to regular 3 ring?

[hobbes4star 0]

on my current set up i have mini 3 ring, but i am ready to buy a new chute. in which case i would like to have it regular size 3 ring.
my question is has anyone else had this modification done before? How much did it cost and did it take long? After the modification was done, did you get riser strikes more or less, or about the same.
"great achievement comes only at great risk" the Dalai Lama

[billvon 2,396]

>on my current set up i have mini 3 ring, but i am ready to buy a new chute. in which case i would like to have it regular size 3 ring.
Not sure I understand. Are you buying a new harness/container? If so, simply specify that you want the large 3-rings; no modification is required. Are you buying a new parachute? If that's the case, 3-ring size is not an issue, since the release system is on the risers.
If you have a rig currently and want to modify it to accept large rings, you can do it with a large ring retrofit kit. You have to cut the small ring off with a bolt cutter and screw on the larger ring. They are not as "clean" as standard No. 10 rings, but are the only way to convert a rig to large rings without a lot of sewing.
-bill von

[hobbes4star 0]

sorry, yes i am buying a new canopy and would like to change to larger three ring.
Screw on a larger ring. if i do it this are the tolerances the same??
"great achievement comes only at great risk" the Dalai Lama

[billvon 2,396]

>sorry, yes i am buying a new canopy and would like to change to larger three ring.

If you want to do this, you'll need the retrofit rings and a new set of risers. The risers are easy to get; the rings are a little tougher since Paragear does not make them any more. I have a few if you can't find them anywhere else.
In addition, you may want to have a rigger actually do it, since this is an operation that was done on a bunch of faulty no. 10 rings about 10 years ago. The danger is in nicking/abrading the harness when removing the old ring, and not tightening the new ring sufficiently.
As a side note - you probably know this, but if you want to keep your current 3-ring system, you can get a small 3-ring system on a large (type 8) riser.
-bill von

[hobbes4star 0]

thanks! all good things to know.
"great achievement comes only at great risk" the Dalai Lama

[PhreeZone 15]

>did you get riser strikes more or less, or about the same.
Riser strikes happen the same no matter what ring size you have. The reason for having larger rigs is making the effective force smaller on a cut away. They are not designed to prevent the riser hitting your head. The easiest way to do this is be stable at deployment and look straight down the entire time through inflation.
Drop the tube...DROP the tube...

[hobbes4star 0]

Thanks again bill. all good things to know.
"great achievement comes only at great risk" the Dalai Lama

[riggerrob 558]

One other caution - if you are screwing large rings onto a harness originally built with small rings - you may have to install slightly longer release housings and cables. That borders on Master Rigger territory.

[rgoper 0]

if i may be so inquisitive, why do you want to change? the wingload is the same, whether it be large, or mini rings. i know people who regularly jump mini-rings with 3+ wings. i jump them with a 1.5, never a problem. not that i'm pro, or against them, just curious!
Richard
"Gravity Is My Friend"

[ernokaikkonen 0]

>if i may be so inquisitive, why do you want to change? the wingload is the same,
>whether it be large, or mini rings. i know people who regularly jump mini-rings with
>3+ wings. i jump them with a 1.5, never a problem. not that i'm pro, or against
>them, just curious!
Have you had to cutaway from a highly loaded spinning mal? The regular three-rings have much more mechanical advantage than the minirings, resulting in an easier cutaway. Take a look at:
http://www.relativeworkshop.com/technical/risers/pullforce.htm
Erno

[hobbes4star 0]

i have had several people ask me why i want to change. it is very simple, when i bought my set-up i was asked if i wanted mini 3 ring or regular. good question since i had no clue as to what they were talking about i asked them for their opinion. guess what i got minis. now 200 dives later and much more informed, if i could go back i would have put regular 3 rings. not that i am highly loaded (yet) but, i like having the odds in my favor. basically i relied on someone else’s opinion, not that anything is wrong with my mini-3 rings it is just that i would rather now have the larger set. In fact i will probably end up just keeping my current set up the same, but on my next rig i will have the larger set put on.
if anyone has not read the advantages on the larger set i would welcome you to. when you read about all the hard cutaways on loaded wings that are spinning you start to think. one day instead of you just reading about it, it could be you under a highly loaded wing spinning out of control. it could be you that might have the mini 3 ring that is twisted all the way up. it might be you trying cut away.
that is why i would rather have the larger set put on. like i said i would rather the odds are in my favor.
just my .02
"great achievement comes only at great risk" the Dalai Lama

[PhillyKev 0]

I thought about the same thing, but as I'm not heavily loading my canopy, and if and when I do downsize that much I'll need a new container anyway, I just went with the mini rings.
cielos azules y cerveza fría
-Kevin

[billvon 2,396]

>one day instead of you just reading about it, it could be you under a highly
> loaded wing spinning out of control. it could be you that might have the mini 3
> ring that is twisted all the way up. it might be you trying cut away.
While I agree that the larger 3-ring has greater mechanical advantage, it will not help you if you get riser twist and trap the cables (unless you have housing inserts, that is.) The mechanism that causes a hard cutaway from a spinner is different than the one that causes the cables to become trapped during riser twist.
BTW I have small rings and risers on my 'main' rig, which has a Safire 119, and large rings on my backup rig which has a Silhouette 170. So I'm backwards.
-bill von

[nacmacfeegle 0]

Okay Hobbes its all about freedom of choice, but you are about to introduce another 'failure mode' into your rig.
I'm assuming this replacement attachment ring set will be similar to the old 'split link' type things that used to attach the suspension lines to rounds, or something similar involving a screw or screwed connection.
These will require regular inspection to ensure they are tight, just like the wee screwed connector links on your main do....Plus its gonna look real ugly, and you will probably be unable to re-sell the rig at a later date....
I would think long and hard about this mod, before you take the bolt croppers to the nice shiny bits....
What are you currently loading at, and when do you think you will be loading at say 1.75+, if that day is still a long way off then its probably not worth it right now....

[harri 0]

How about the mini rings and the RSL?
I don't want to start a RSL/noRSL -conversation again here. I have read tons of previous posts concerning RSL, and decided to have it connected still. But:
One fellow jumper saw my mini rings with the RSL and said somewhat: "U have the minis and the RSL? That combination was thought to be dangerous at backtimes." That was all he remembered, didn't remember why. A great help. ;)
So now, is there any potential danger here? The only thing I can come up with is that, if the ring(s) at the riser where the RSL is connected should break, I would have the reserve out and the main from the other riser with me. But that would be the case also with the bigger rings. Are the mini rings so much weaker?

[Remster 24]

Mini risers and RSL were a potential problem at one point when mini risers were fairly new. There were a series of riser failures in the mid / late 90s, which, if this occured below the RSL connection on the failed riser, would cause a reserve deployment.
This was addressed with a new stronger riser construction, and you dont hear about risers breaking right left and center anymore.
That being said, check your risers on regular interval and change them if they start to show wear.
Remster
Muff 914

[hobbes4star 0]

Nac i was just wondering if it is possible to change the rings. never said that i was going to do it. but it is nice to know if it can be done and what it entails.
"great achievement comes only at great risk" the Dalai Lama

[nacmacfeegle 0]

No worries Hobbes, just thinking out loud sort of thing.....
"I might bend my hat in the process, but I'd still teach that guy a lesson or two" David Lund......

[hobbes4star 0]

it's all good, actually i don't many people new that you could change them.
"great achievement comes only at great risk" the Dalai Lama

[crazydiver 0]

Just a little note, how many pro swoopers do you know jumping sub 100 sq. ft. canopies loaded well over 2 lbs per square foot that use large harness rings and large rings on the risers? I don't know any. Hard housings in the excess cutaway cable track are more of your concern. These hard housings prevent a heavy twist in the lower part of the riser from binding the cutaway cable to the riser. Just letting you know.

Cheers,
Travis

[dropzonefool 0]

Do you know if it is possibal for the twisted risers to be so tight thay can pinch, or to compress the hard housing inserts thus also preventing a cutaway?

[riggerrob 558]

Quote

Do you know if it is possible for the twisted risers to be so tight they can pinch, or to compress the hard housing inserts thus also preventing a cutaway?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Let's be realistic.
It takes hundreds of pounds of pressure to flatten spiral-wound cable housings.

[Stealth 0]

Does using standart 3rings (not mini) means using more wider risers?
What about lowering slider on risers?
On my safire lowering slider is tight even with mini risers.

[crazydiver 0]

A person can use standard three rings (not mini) on mini risers...the risers don't necessarily have to be wider. You should be able to lower your slider onto mini risers. It may be that you have link covers that are too thick. Perhaps they are silicon...sometimes those are tough to get the slider grommets over. Depending on the size of the links...mini or standard...you can even get a slider down onto standeard risers a lot of times.

Cheers,
Travis

[beezyshaw 0]

Quote

A person can use standard three rings (not mini) on mini risers...the risers don't necessarily have to be wider.

Wait a second, are you saying mini-risers(type 17) can be built with large rings on them like are used with type 8 risers? I don't think so. Now if you only mean that mini risers with small rings can be connected to a harness with large rings, that is true.