evh 22 #26 November 4, 2016 jumpsalot-2Keep in mind what that hatch is really for. A pilot can step up, outside the plane to this small hatch, and shove his very small bag thru the portal verses having to throw it over the front seats to the rear. It is just a convenience portal. OK, I understand the purpose of the hatch, but I think I am missing the point you are trying to make? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #27 November 4, 2016 Actually the baggage door allows access to the area below the back deck WHEN THE ENTIRE INTERIOR is in the aicraft. When the entire interior is in there is a deck/shelf at the level of the top of the rear seats to the rear bulk head. The area behind the seats can ONLY be accessed through the baggage door. You can't throw anything over the seats into that area. Google cessna 182 rear interior to see photos, since most skydibers have probably NEVER seen a 182, or any other jump olane with.the interior in place. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 1,903 #28 November 4, 2016 councilman24 Actually the baggage door allows access to the area below the back deck WHEN THE ENTIRE INTERIOR is in the aicraft. When the entire interior is in there is a deck/shelf at the level of the top of the rear seats to the rear bulk head. The area behind the seats can ONLY be accessed through the baggage door. You can't throw anything over the seats into that area. Google cessna 182 rear interior to see photos, since most skydibers have probably NEVER seen a 182, or any other jump olane with.the interior in place. So in other words it's the door to the "trunk, or boot".Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #29 November 4, 2016 ........... We mostly jump a mix of static-line students and sports jumpers. Adjusting the club gear to include a seatbelt by default may be an option, but we definitely cannot mandate that on sports jumpers individual gear. ................................................................. Agreed! So you loop semi-permanent harness belts onto school harnesses and offer them to instructors. Confirm that semi-permanent harness belts are compatible with Hooker tag-line or stock Cessna buckles. Leave the Hooker or Cessna belts installed in the airplane. Visiting sport jumpers can still use Cessna or Hooker belts in the normal manner. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #30 November 4, 2016 gowlerk ***Actually the baggage door allows access to the area below the back deck WHEN THE ENTIRE INTERIOR is in the aicraft. When the entire interior is in there is a deck/shelf at the level of the top of the rear seats to the rear bulk head. The area behind the seats can ONLY be accessed through the baggage door. You can't throw anything over the seats into that area. Google cessna 182 rear interior to see photos, since most skydibers have probably NEVER seen a 182, or any other jump olane with.the interior in place. So in other words it's the door to the "trunk, or boot". Yes. When we rip the interior out it becomes part of the cabin where we sit. Some operators put in smooth panels like the photo earlier so a jumper may have never seen the door from the inside. In 38 years I have never heard of that door coming open in flight but it probably has.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DBCOOPER 1 #31 November 6, 2016 The baggage door in the early 182s is held closed by a small latch similar to a door knob latch on an interior door in a house, only larger. It is actuated by a spring loaded rod connected to a push button located in the door frame on the pilots side. It was never designed to have force applied from the interior of the plane. I have the standard USPA stc seatbelt configuration.I was flying a load with a very light weight tandem master in the rear most position (against the rear bulkhead) using a seat belt extension. Some how the baggage door came open in the moving around/hooking up and after they got out I heard the seat belt banging against the side of the plane. I have since secured the door by tying it closed with shock cord. I would never let someone sit with their back/pilot chute against it after that experience. Just doesn't fit the risk management model.Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #32 November 6, 2016 Agreed DBCooper, Last time we ferried our Cessna 205, just before take-off, I noticed the baggage door ajar, so we reclosed it (from the inside) just before takeoff roll. Not sure if the pilot even noticed. This baggage door has an after-market, sheet aluminum cover protecting the door latch from the inside. That was the only time I have seen that door open. I probably have 1,000 jumps from that particular 205. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
evh 22 #33 November 6, 2016 OK this is getting pretty off-topic. Our C182 does have a hatch, but it is not visible from the inside. The entire left side is covered by a metal panel that runs from the pilot's door until the end of the cabin. So i would say zero risk of pilot chutes escaping here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DBCOOPER 1 #34 November 7, 2016 May be off topic for you...Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DBCOOPER 1 #35 November 7, 2016 Its not directed at you and your DZ. Seems like your interior eliminates the issue. Its for those like me that have a totally stripped out interior.Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Baksteen 84 #36 November 8, 2016 DBCOOPER Its not directed at you and your DZ. Seems like your interior eliminates the issue. Its for those like me that have a totally stripped out interior. Welll... evh, Ijskonijn and myself are all from the same DZ and the topic was originally about me trying to find pictures of seatbelt configurations in different jump planes, but specifically the 182. So the argument that the discussion has gone off-topic does have some validity. That said, there are several nice systems posted already."That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #37 November 8, 2016 Yes. Discussing baggage doors wanders off-topic (from seatbelt pictures) but baggage doors need to be discussed sooner or later. Baggage doors are a side-subject from belts. For example, I recently gave a "bail-out seminar"'to the Aerobatic Club of British Columbia. My initial lesson plan was mostly about parachutes, but when we got to practicing bail-out drills, we ended up devoting considerable time and practicing to aerobatic seatbelts. Fortunately, ACBC provided three shiny airplanes (Decathlon, Christen Eagle and Extra) and several experienced pilots who explained seatbelts to junior pilots, etc. We eventually devoted an extra (pun intended) hour to seatbelts, but aerobatic belts were an important side-subject. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
radical_flyer 0 #38 November 8, 2016 Are there any US/CA dropzones that use snap shackle single point restraints? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpwally 0 #39 November 11, 2016 ....instead of shock cord , why not a more permanant solution ? just curious....thxsmile, be nice, enjoy life FB # - 1083 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #40 November 11, 2016 radical_flyerAre there any US/CA dropzones that use snap shackle single point restraints? ........................................................................................ Not that I know of. What size of snap shackles? What size of webbing? How do you adjust length? Do you snap them to hip rings? Do you connect the bottom end to cargo rings? Are snap shackles approved/certified/blessed by Australian Civil Aviation Authorites? NZ? UK? Can you provide a link to a manufacturer of snap shackle belts? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DBCOOPER 1 #41 November 11, 2016 jumpwally....instead of shock cord , why not a more permanant solution ? just curious....thx Still use it as a non jump plane on occasion.Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lydialopez 0 #42 December 10, 2016 Thanks for the information.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #43 December 10, 2016 radical_flyerAre there any US/CA dropzones that use snap shackle single point restraints? -------------------------------------------------------------------- Sorry, but I have never seen "snap-shackle, single-point restraints" and was hoping that some one would post pictures. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deimian 43 #44 December 11, 2016 riggerrob Sorry, but I have never seen "snap-shackle, single-point restraints" and was hoping that some one would post pictures. You mean this? https://www.google.de/maps/@50.4791297,5.9121259,3a,75y,227.73h,48.87t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sUO_0H-xOTIwAAAGut300BA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1 I've never jump anywhere in north america, but in this side of the atlantic, all the caravans and grand caravans I've seen have single point restraints like this one. At least that's the case in Belgium, Netherlands and Germany. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peek 20 #45 December 11, 2016 Deimian*** Sorry, but I have never seen "snap-shackle, single-point restraints" and was hoping that some one would post pictures. You mean this? https://www.google.de/maps/@50.4791297,5.9121259,3a,75y,227.73h,48.87t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sUO_0H-xOTIwAAAGut300BA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1 I've never jump anywhere in north america, but in this side of the atlantic, all the caravans and grand caravans I've seen have single point restraints like this one. At least that's the case in Belgium, Netherlands and Germany. Where do skydivers normally connect those? If the airplane was just taking some passengers somewhere (no skydivers aboard) how would they use them with no rig on? Or do they just not do that? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pobrause 6 #46 December 11, 2016 Hip rings or leg straps mostly. Often they are long enough to route around a harness part and fasten it back with itself. ETA: skydiving planes are seldomly used to just transport whuffos from point A to B where I jump. They are obviously ill equipped for that task At my home DZ if a nonjumper is joining a flight we install the copilot seat back in. (Supervan) ------------------------------------------------------- To absent friends Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deimian 43 #47 December 12, 2016 In my club (3 DZs in Belgium), passengers have to wear a rig, otherwise they are not allowed on the airplane. The rig is some sort of pilot rig with a single canopy, I suppose round. The restraints are also slightly different. There is an extra loop of webbing (I don't know the type, looks like type 17 but a bit thicker) to route around a harness part and lock with the shackle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpsalot-2 2 #48 December 16, 2016 It makes sense right ? The plane has a problem and everyone gets to exit .... except the "observer" who does not have a rig on .... Life is short ... jump often. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
