Unnecessary cutaway. Very Dangerous and stupid

[jacketsdb23 49]

I don't think I'd ever cut the line in that situation. If I had to take too many wraps to get it flying straight, it becomes a control problem and I'd chop it.

Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen
God is Good
Beer is Great
Swoopers are crazy.

[Southern_Man 0]

I've watched the video several times in an attempt to read the altitude but I can't really make it out. Can anybody read what altitude he pulled at? When he noticed the brake line? when he pulled reserve?

It does seem as though he spent a long time fiddling with his brake line (after not noticing the problem for a while) but also had a good bit of time under his reserve, so I am guessing he pulled on the high side.

EDIT: OK, watched it again, looks like he is at 3000 when his dytter goes off and he pulls). He does something with his chest strap before he unstows his toggles, but it doesn't look really loose. I can't quite see where the altimeter is at 1:58 of the video. Look like 2500ish? Can't read it again at 2:29. Looks like he is under his reserve @1000 ft at 2:49.

it is awfully hard to read that altimeter on the video.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[rehmwa 2]

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I don't think I'd ever cut the line in that situation. If I had to take too many wraps to get it flying straight, it becomes a control problem and I'd chop it.

agreed for your canopy or even mine - (referencing Dave's not on losing all that surface area aft of the D line attachment)

bigger ones - I have no issue cutting a steering line (but I'd still do both) and landing on rears if I had to wrap up the opposite line too much

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[skyjumpenfool 2]

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agreed for your canopy or even mine - (referencing Dave's not on losing all that surface area aft of the D line attachment)

bigger ones - I have no issue cutting a steering line (but I'd still do both) and landing on rears if I had to wrap up the opposite line too much

Hmmm? Not sure I'd spend the time/altitude messing around. Gotta trust your reserve.

I think it's good to mention your experience level and understanding of the equipment. Newbs or lower time jumpers should be sticking to EP's. Guys like you with thousands of jumps may have time/experience to take these more advanced measures.

Birdshit & Fools Productions

"Son, only two things fall from the sky."

[pj_jumper 0]

Your right 150 jumps is low for a 1.4 on a Xfire. Just to let everyone know I'm at 166 now so all good. Crisis averted

Skydiving without a parachute is easy, its skydiving twice without a parachute that is extremely difficult

[chuckakers 411]

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Plus the guys main was a 7 cell. land on the rears.

What does the canopy being a 7 cell have to do with landing it on rears?

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[5.samadhi 0]

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Your right 150 jumps is low for a 1.4 on a Xfire. Just to let everyone know I'm at 166 now so all good. Crisis averted

its not that we dont believe you can land well for 16 jumps without getting hurt.

You could probably easily land a velocity loaded at 2.2:1 in ideal circumstances.

Its that in the worst possible scenario most experience people doubt you have the safety margin with 1.4 WL to deal successfully. That takes hundreds of jumps to build up experience so that you can stay safe in all possible scenarios.

Why would you want your hobby to be a ticking time bomb (sooner or later kind of thing).

enough said...I have thought these thoughts out based on personal experience and advice given from close friends/mentors.

After 3 years of skydiving and over 300 jumps I still jump a 1.2 because a safety margin is nice.

[chuckakers 411]

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Advice noted. By swooping I only mean attempts at accelerated landings. Be it front riser dives. Or 90s. But always with altitude to spare. The jumper in this video lacks certain understandings. I highly doubt much besides altitude, his toggle and damn packers went through his mind

And on top of all your other madd skilz, you're psychic. That's pretty awesome.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[pj_jumper 0]

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Your right 150 jumps is low for a 1.4 on a Xfire. Just to let everyone know I'm at 166 now so all good. Crisis averted

its not that we dont believe you can land well for 16 jumps without getting hurt.

You could probably easily land a velocity loaded at 2.2:1 in ideal circumstances.

Its that in the worst possible scenario most experience people doubt you have the safety margin with 1.4 WL to deal successfully. That takes hundreds of jumps to build up experience so that you can stay safe in all possible scenarios.

Why would you want your hobby to be a ticking time bomb (sooner or later kind of thing).

enough said...I have thought these thoughts out based on personal experience and advice given from close friends/mentors.

After 3 years of skydiving and over 300 jumps I still jump a 1.2 because a safety margin is nice.

I suppose I should be more afraid of canopy flying etc however as a licensed pilot and now 6 years in aviation since i was 19 for better or worse I am comfortable with flight.
I agree of course no matter what, my safety margin is narrowed by my canopy choice etc. It's fun as hell tho.

Skydiving without a parachute is easy, its skydiving twice without a parachute that is extremely difficult

[pj_jumper 0]

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Advice noted. By swooping I only mean attempts at accelerated landings. Be it front riser dives. Or 90s. But always with altitude to spare. The jumper in this video lacks certain understandings. I highly doubt much besides altitude, his toggle and damn packers went through his mind

And on top of all your other madd skilz, you're psychic. That's pretty awesome.

"Madd skilz" what are you? 14?

Skydiving without a parachute is easy, its skydiving twice without a parachute that is extremely difficult

[adamUK 3]

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"Madd skilz" what are you? 14?

It's used as a derogatory remark to signify individuals who perceive their skills as better than they actually are.

Simply put, there's been too many people who have downsized too early and killed or seriously injured themselves. Believe it or not, derogatory remarks aside, no one want to see YOU hurt.
If you want to progress quickly by all means do so, get a zillion jumps in, go and seek the best canopy pilots in the world and learn from them, plan your career to be a great canopy pilot. However at the minute most of the regulars on here are of the opinion that at the minute you're flying a ticking time bomb.

[wolfriverjoe 1,460]

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Advice noted. By swooping I only mean attempts at accelerated landings. Be it front riser dives. Or 90s. But always with altitude to spare. The jumper in this video lacks certain understandings. I highly doubt much besides altitude, his toggle and damn packers went through his mind

And on top of all your other madd skilz, you're psychic. That's pretty awesome.

"Madd skilz" what are you? 14?

Nope. He's been around long enough to recognize you. And he's seen all the other "youse" (if that's a word) that came before.
People who are in way, way over their head and don't even realize it.
Who are "special" or "skilled" or who will "be careful" or who have "the approval of the professionals at their DZ'.

Some of them get lucky and never crash and go on to become experienced canopy pilots. Many of those later tell the new guys that "I was stupid and lucky. Don't do what I did."
Some get scared or hurt just a little and learn.
Others get hurt badly enough to be in the hospital for a while and learn. Some keep jumping, some give it up voluntarily, some give it up because they are too damaged to ever jump again.
Some even get hurt badly (ICU for a couple days, hospital for a week or so) but heal well enough that the can keep jumping, but still haven't learned yet. I know one of those.
Some only learn in the last 2 or 3 seconds of their life before they hit the ground and die.

He and some of the others telling you that you are making a bad choice actually care. They've seen "You" before and don't want to see what happened to some of them happen to you.

But it's your choice.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[chuckakers 411]

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Advice noted. By swooping I only mean attempts at accelerated landings. Be it front riser dives. Or 90s. But always with altitude to spare. The jumper in this video lacks certain understandings. I highly doubt much besides altitude, his toggle and damn packers went through his mind

And on top of all your other madd skilz, you're psychic. That's pretty awesome.

"Madd skilz" what are you? 14?

I'm trying to be one of the cool kids. I hear they get to hang out with you.

Seriously dood, your trolling techniques are old. Bu, bye.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[ufk22 32]

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My question here is first he said "canopy was uncontroleable" which is clearly not the case. He had Unstowed his toggles for 15 seconds before he even did enough Of a control check to discover his right side was knotted. Control check? He never actually did one! C'mon. A student would have done a "pump the breaks" and caught this at a higher and safer altitude.

Then he accused the packer. Which shows he doesnt even know or care to find out what really caused the hang up. He then flew his ENTIRE reserve approach in half breaks had no flare left on landing. Where he was taught to fly any canopy like that I would be afraid to know. Plus the guys main was a 7 cell. land on the rears.

Criticize me and my set up? I have taken the advice of dz pros who know me have watched me fly over 90% of my jumps. This canopy and loading may get me flamed for my expirience level but dont worry it is a calculated descision. I do respect your concern.

Thank you for your comments everybody.

At this stage of your skydiving, you are obviously too ignorant to realize how stupid you appear.
Could this canopy have been landed? Probably, but landing on rears is not the easiest thing to do, especially with one brake partially set and the other released.
Could the problem have been caught sooner? Possibly, but it wasn't.
Did he "create" his own problem. Definitely, but we all can and will make mistakes.
Did he fixate on the problem? No, he made a decision and executed it in a controlled manner.
He made an "off DZ landing" in half brakes, then got up and walked away. That's sure not what we teach.
As to your canopy selection and the advice of your "DZ Pros", I have no problem with that, "because you're a grown-ass man and can make your own decisions."

OK, I take it back, you're NOT ignorant, at least not after all the advice you've been given on this forum.
You're just stupid!!
waste of time going any further with this one.....

This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

[obelixtim 135]

Just get back to your original post.

Can you clarify exactly what you meant by "very dangerous" when talking about the cutaway.

Its quite clear that the jumper was not stupid to chop his main. I`m intrigued to know what you thought was dangerous about it.....

My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

[CSpenceFLY 1]

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Your right 150 jumps is low for a 1.4 on a Xfire. Just to let everyone know I'm at 166 now so all good. Crisis averted

its not that we dont believe you can land well for 16 jumps without getting hurt.

You could probably easily land a velocity loaded at 2.2:1 in ideal circumstances.

Its that in the worst possible scenario most experience people doubt you have the safety margin with 1.4 WL to deal successfully. That takes hundreds of jumps to build up experience so that you can stay safe in all possible scenarios.

Why would you want your hobby to be a ticking time bomb (sooner or later kind of thing).

enough said...I have thought these thoughts out based on personal experience and advice given from close friends/mentors.

After 3 years of skydiving and over 300 jumps I still jump a 1.2 because a safety margin is nice.

I suppose I should be more afraid of canopy flying etc however as a licensed pilot and now 6 years in aviation since i was 19 for better or worse I am comfortable with flight.
I agree of course no matter what, my safety margin is narrowed by my canopy choice etc. It's fun as hell tho.

I thought the same thing. Commercial pilot with about 1400 hrs when I broke my back on a straight in on front risers landing when I had about 150 jumps. I'd have to go look for the actual jump number.

There have been many like you and many more to come. You aren't special.

[5.samadhi 0]

its a hard lesson to learn - that you're not special and you might make a mistake - especially for such ego-driven people that often are attracted to fringe sports like skydiving.

Your posts (PJ) strike me as being very ego-driven. Anybody who has spent even a season hanging out on a dropzone on the weekends has seen many like you (they all have done something 'extreme' in the past which qualifies them from an exemption from mistakes).

I learned my lesson and I only had to rest for 4 weeks after my injury...I'm a lucky one

[theonlyski 3]

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I suppose I should be more afraid of canopy flying etc however as a licensed pilot and now 6 years in aviation since i was 19 for better or worse I am comfortable with flight.
I agree of course no matter what, my safety margin is narrowed by my canopy choice etc. It's fun as hell tho.

How many engine out's did you have without a good runway to aim for?

We don't have the luxury of being able to go around if our approach isn't good enough this time. Sometimes you even end up trying to figure out where the hell you are. I won't go into the details of this clip, but can you honestly say you could do the same/better? Downwind none the less?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqoxnwxF3CA

Yes I know, spot sucked, pulled low, blah blah, again the reasons behind the off landing are nobody here's business.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[Sky_doggy 0]

Wow, awesome job. That's enough to make me want to practice my canopy skills on every jump. Phew..... BTW I have 2000 hours on various fixed wing aircraft including sailplanes and I am very very respectful of flying canopies, it's a very different game!!!

[theonlyski 3]

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Wow, awesome job. That's enough to make me want to practice my canopy skills on every jump. Phew..... BTW I have 2000 hours on various fixed wing aircraft including sailplanes and I am very very respectful of flying canopies, it's a very different game!!!

Yup, I was low, adrenaline was flowing, had to do the heavy breathing (you can hear it at the end of the video) to keep my helmet from fogging up (in thru nose, out thru mouth port).

Roads had power lines both sides and crossing them, there was one other lane I could've taken off to the right along the fence lines, but I saw a power line pole right in the middle of it so I decided not to.

I could've downsized more by now but I know for a fact I can do this on my canopy (Safire2 169 @ 1.2), that's enough for me.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[billvon 2,718]

>I suppose I should be more afraid of canopy flying etc . . .

Yes, you should be. If you get killed, the odds are it will be under canopy.

> however as a licensed pilot and now 6 years in aviation since i was 19 for better or
>worse I am comfortable with flight.

I've been teaching for about 15 years now, and the scariest students I've had have been the ones who are sure they are going to be fine because they have:

-fast reactions because they ride motorcycles and are used to speed
-excellent flight skills because they took some flying lessons
-are into adrenalin sports and so can handle the pressure

etc etc.

For people like that, the best thing I can hope for is that they reach the point where they realize how little they know BEFORE they need to rely on the skills they've never bothered to learn (because, of course, they ride motorcycles, and so don't need to.)

[jrjny 0]

something I keep in mind - if I would be hesitant to land downwind on the runway, it's probably too fast. I could getaway with that but I'm loaded at basically 1 to 1. Wouldn't be excited about it but would have confidence.

my 2 cents - not attacking 'ya

Jeff

[adamUK 3]

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-fast reactions because they ride motorcycles and are used to speed

I remember one CCI giving the speech to a guy who used the motorcycle excuse with something along the lines of: "If you find yourself in a situation on a bike then you can slow down and park up. This option is not available to you once you've exited the plane door"

[rehmwa 2]

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agreed for your canopy or even mine - (referencing Dave's not on losing all that surface area aft of the D line attachment)

bigger ones - I have no issue cutting a steering line (but I'd still do both) and landing on rears if I had to wrap up the opposite line too much

Hmmm? Not sure I'd spend the time/altitude messing around. Gotta trust your reserve.

(I know you're asking this for the newbies, Mike. I'll play )

Hmmmmm? are you saying you don't look at your altitude at all? - If you are going to make a gross generalization, then I am required to respond by asking if you cut away on a simple brake getting knocked loose on opening at 4000 feet? (of course not, if you recognize that's what it is above your hard deck, you'd just release the other one)

IMO - If you have time and altitude to 'spend', go ahead and use it if so inclined - just pay attention and let a control check press the final decision once you get all trimmed up. If you don't that much time, then the quicker answer is the chop, of course. I trust my reserve, but I trust that already open, perfectly good canopy slightly more. (with my canopy, it's typically pretty quick from seeing the problem to determining if it's worth spending any time, they spin up quick when it's bad, and fly pretty nice when it's workable)

stick with your decision hard deck at all times

now, are you still skeptical now that I've had to provide the full picture for the kids?

agree on the comment about your experience and planning apply greatly here - my numbers are at the left, I've had a high speed and a low speed malfunction, a crw wrap/cutaway, and an airplane crash for further pedigree - not great, but a sampling.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[pj_jumper 0]

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I suppose I should be more afraid of canopy flying etc however as a licensed pilot and now 6 years in aviation since i was 19 for better or worse I am comfortable with flight.
I agree of course no matter what, my safety margin is narrowed by my canopy choice etc. It's fun as hell tho.

How many engine out's did you have without a good runway to aim for?

We don't have the luxury of being able to go around if our approach isn't good enough this time. Sometimes you even end up trying to figure out where the hell you are. I won't go into the details of this clip, but can you honestly say you could do the same/better? Downwind none the less?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqoxnwxF3CA

Yes I know, spot sucked, pulled low, blah blah, again the reasons behind the off landing are nobody here's business.

yeah skeptics would say he was lucky but the s turn on final makes me think he picked his spot. i assume there was no out behind him and downwind was necessary etc yeah not to judge. i dont judge any more here. lol

Skydiving without a parachute is easy, its skydiving twice without a parachute that is extremely difficult