mini-risers

[steve1 5]

I've got a couple sets of mini-risers. I took these off my two canopies and replaced them with standard width risers. One set (of the mini-risers) is fairly new with dive loops. Most all of the more experienced jumpers at my drop zone use the larger, wider, standard-type risers. I'm just wondering about strength wise. Are mini-risers strong enough? The older set, that I have, need to be thrown out because they are not double thick (like the newer ones are) where they connect to the harness ring. I understand that the early versions sometimes broke in this weakened area. I would imagine that if you were jumping with a collapsible slider that slid down your risers, that maybe you would have to go with mini risers. And one last dumb question: Is there any advantage to the smaller mini-rings versus the larger standard size rings. I would think the mini-rings would release more easily if you had severe line twists and your head was wedged against the rings. I would appreciate your imput. (I'm full of stupid questions!) Thanks, Steve

[PhreeZone 15]

The larger the rings the easier the pressure on the cutaway cable is. The machanical advantage is lost as you get smaller rings. The heavier you are or if you grossly over load a canopy the more you need to look at regular three rings and not mini rings. There is an artical in the Archives that lays out the math behind it, but at high weights the difference is HUGE. There reaches a point on mini rings where a cutaway from a spinner probally is not possible.
As for type 8 vs Type 17 webbing risers, most is more prefernce then anything else. Type 17 are the narrow, mini risers. They have a high breaking strength and allow the slider to go behind your head easier. Type 17 are also nice for people with small hands that don't have dive loops.
Type 8 risers are the standerd risers that are found on most rigs.
Some manufactors only ship type 17 risers any more and there has never been a problem associated with those manufactored with in the specifications.
I love my mini risers and will never go back to the type 8 risers. Some people jump equipment just because they don't want to try new or different things (Reserve slinks on the Reserve, Type 8 Risers, ZP canopies). They are perfectly happy with what they were using for years and don't what to change whats not broken while others will always what to push the development of new gear.
Cause I don't wanna come back down from this cloud... ~ Bush

[skybytch 259]

I'm sure someone here can give you actual breaking strength numbers, but in general Type 17 or "mini" risers work great for most all jumpers. Be sure that they are reinforced (all mini risers produced since about 1995 are reinforced as far as I know - Rob?). There was a problem in the early nineties with mini risers breaking at the grommet near the three rings, which lead to the reinforcement; this was also what brought about the invention of "integrity" or reversed 3 ring risers. You can tell if a set of mini-risers has been reinforced by looking at them from the side; a reinforced set will have a different colored piece of webbing between the top and bottom sections near the 3 ring. (Did that make sense?
I would recommend Type 8 (or standard) risers if you weigh much more than about 220 and plan to load up your main. But other than that it's a personal choice. Some CRW jumpers prefer Type 8 risers.
John Sherman from Jump Shack posted some good info here a while back about 3 ring sizes... do a search on this forum; worth your time.
pull and flare,
lisa
--
What would Scooby Doo?

[Engovatov 0]

>I would recommend Type 8 (or standard) risers if you weigh
>much more than about 220 and plan to load up your main.
How would the size of the main affect the loading of the risers? It is the weight of the jumper - for any size of the main. If anything - smaller main may produce lower opening shock for everything else being the same..

[Floater 0]

Just as a guess, I would say that the higher you load your main, the faster it would turn in a hard spiral giving you a higher g-force (which would increase your apparent weight). This would give you more long term stress than just opening shock and could shorten the lifespan of the mini risers.
Like I said though, that's just a guess.
Lee

[AggieDave 6]

Is there a "magic number" that we should look for in wing loading in reference to what sort of risers would be safe? In other words, at what wing loading would it be prudent to switch from mini-risers to the other ones?
"Alright, at 4500 lets break it, turn 360 and track away..."

[Floater 0]

I don't think there really is a "magic" number where you would have to switch. Everyone I know that really loads up there main use mini risers. It just probably just means that you have to inspect the risers more often and maybe replace them sooner.
Lee

[skybytch 259]

Quote

It just probably just means that you have to inspect the risers more often and maybe replace them sooner.

Bingo. If you're a big guy inspect your risers often - only takes a minute or two, add it to your pack job routine.
pull and flare,
lisa
--
What would Scooby Doo?

[rhino 0]

If I am 175 out the door loading a canopy at saaaay 1.8 is that a problem with mini risers?
Blue Skies and Smooth Rides!!

[skybytch 259]

Actually I recommend that everybody inspect their main risers on a regular basis... since most of the time your rigger never sees them or your main it's up to you to catch the little stuff that can turn into big stuff later. Points to watch - the loop that holds the top three ring, the grommet the loop goes through and the webbing surrounding it, the toggle velcro and stow velcro if yours has it, the toggle keepers, and the webbing at the top that the connector links go through.
pull and flare,
lisa
--
What would Scooby Doo?

[Geoff 0]

The two main things which cause strain on the risers are
(1) The jumper's weight (irrespective of wing loading)
(2) Opening speed of the canopy
So a 230lb jumper on a Sabre 230 will strain the risers a whole lot more than 170lb on a Crossfire / Cobalt / Spectre 120, depsite the lower wing loading.
Any strain on the risers during even high-g manouvres will be pretty small compared to deployment.
I'm sure they used minis on the VX46.
Geoff

[Hooknswoop 19]

Something else to consider: The larger risers w/ the mini-rings offer no more mechanical advantage than the mini risers w/ the mini rings. Since mini risers don't seem to be breaking these days, the decision on which risers to get is how much mechanical advantage do you want on your 3-rings. The larger rings should (all others things being equal) result in a lower pull force on the cutaway handle. Since the vast majority of people flying small, high performance canopies have mini risers and aren't dieing from hard cutaways, lighter wingloadings should be safe under mini risers.
Maintain your 3-rings according to the manufactures instructions, keep your cutaway cables clean, and check into the metal inserts that protect the excess cutaway cable in the back of the risers. It is amazing to me when I hear people say "it took both hands to cutaway and it was still hard" and I look at their cables and they are more black than yellow. I have peeled the velcro off the cutaway handle and picked up a rig by the pillow. Not a small rig, but a Javelin, Sabre 190 and PD193R. The cables were black. I cleaned them, massaged the 3-Rings, re-assembled it and the cables came back out w/ very little effort, the rig didn't move on the floor.
Hook

[SkydiveMonkey 0]

It's scary to think that this could possibly make a difference to you living or not, and yet it's still overlooked too much.
You shouldn't put a knife in the toaster - but you're an adult now !!!

[Kris 0]

I am 245# out the door and jump mini-rings on type-17 risers with my Mirage & Stiletto-190. Because of this, part of my first-jump inspection for the weekend includes my risers.
I check the ring attachment points, the grommet and all of the webbing / stitching for wear or frays, then I check the top of the riser where my slinks are installed.
Kris

[Hooknswoop 19]

Alos, dragging your rig across the packing room floor when pack (stowing the lines) is hard on the risers and rig. So for longer riser/rig life, don't drag your rig or let your packer drag it.
Hook

[TEB6363 0]

Keeping the entire rig clean, dry, and in good condition is a must. Remember to take a couple of extra minutes each month to release a cutaway cable and pull the riser off the harness. Check that the "pull" is not too hard and work the end of the riser back and forth to get rid of the set/bend at the bottom.
When you have a hard time pulling the riser off the rig (straight up) or when the bottom of the riser is stretched into a "J" shape it is time for a new set.
:::OK, Canopy is Open, No Traffic Around, .. Why are these "Extra" Lines Draping Down??, Damn!