Brake set nightmare!

[DBTECH 0]

Brake set nightmare!
About ten days ago at Eloy, I let a visiting jumper from Israel jump my Reflex that has a Cobalt 135 in it. After he landed I asked him the usual questions about the canopy performance/opening--his response was positive. It was at this point that I noticed that the brakes had been reset. When I mentioned this to him, he said that he was in the habit in doing so immediately after landing. I didn't give it any thought, as I knew he had 600 jumps, and "should" know how to set the brakes. A few days later I packed the canopy--I did look over the brake set/toggle area, and nothing looked out of the norm whatsoever.
My brake set method is to bring the excess line/loop through a ring at the top of the riser, then back down to the brake set loop area--passing the toggle nose first through it, then into the steering line brake set loop. This method is not widely practiced, but known/done by many. (I first started doing it in the very early eighties)
I made one jump yesterday at Marana, AZ (Saturday) After I opened, I first killed my slider, then released my brakes--so I thought! It was immediately apparent that something was terribly wrong! My toggles hung down about one foot below the brake set point on the risers! When I pulled down on either toggle, I was in fact pulling the riser itself down! Closer inspection reveled a complete overhand knot at each excess loop pass ring which are located at the top of the risers! I did a few riser flares via the toggles, and figured I was ok making a landing this way. There was basically no wind--I leveled out in riser flair-landing out-doing a slide in landing on the desert floor, with some resulting road rash. (no jump suit)
During my walk back to the DZ, I rationalized what he had to have done. After he brought the excess lower steering line loop through the "riser top-excess line pass ring," he then passed the "entire toggle/line" through the loop! After this the excess lower steering line was brought down normally to the set point where the toggle nose was passed through it before being put into the steering line brake set loop. If you can envision this, you can see that it would look totally normal, with no "apparent condition" that would result in a knot forming around the loop pass ring, after toggle/brake release.
Yes, as the packer of this canopy, I take total responsibility for this incident, for assuming that an experienced jumper with 600 jumps would know how to set the brakes! He never asked me about the excess line pass ring/method, so maybe this along with his "claimed" 600 jumps sent a subconscious ok message to me.
Lesson again learned--Always question the validity of the obvious!
Dave Brownell
Mesa, Arizona

[OmriMon 0]

Post deleted by alan

[apoil 0]

Post deleted by alan

[cyberskydive 0]

He passed it through the loop in the steering line that normally only has the top part of the toggle going through it?
DAMN! What you guys smokin over there omri?-LOL must have either small toggles ot large loops!
C-28534
"My "Old Hand" is getting tired"

[zaidush 0]

Post deleted by alan

[DBTECH 0]

cyberskydive said--
He passed it through the loop in the steering line that normally only has the top part of the toggle going through it?
DAMN! What you guys smokin over there omri?-LOL must have either small toggles ot large loops!
DB--I think you should reread my article, as this is not what he did.
Dave Brownell

[alan 1]

Quote

My brake set method is to bring the excess line/loop through a ring at the top of the riser, then back down to the brake set loop area--passing the toggle nose first through it, then into the steering line brake set loop. This method is not widely practiced, but known/done by many. (I first started doing it in the very early eighties)

Dave, I have a couple of questions about this. Does this mean you have a ring added to the top of your riser for this purpose or am I misreading something?
Also, what is the advantage to this method?
Any disadvantages other than the one indicated?
I put a small rubberband thru the link (soft or rapide) on the riser, just as I would on the side of the D-bag, to hold the excess brake line. It seems simple and foolproof and it is easy to replace the band when it needs it.
alan

[DBTECH 0]

Alan asks
Dave, I have a couple of questions about this. Does this mean you have a ring added to the top of your riser for this purpose or am I misreading something?
DB--In the case of my "current canopy," I "do" have an RW-4 ring on both rear riser connector links, that's used to pass the excess line loop end through on it's way back down to the brake set/ring area, where the toggle nose is first passed through it before being inserted into the brake set loop.
Without any added parts, you have two options/points for passing the excess line/loop end through. The point furtherest away from the brake set ring/point, is the area/point above the riser between the connector link. A nominal one inch closer point to the brake set ring/point, is the inside of the riser loop itself. The bottom inside of the riser loop is 1 to 1.5 inches closer to the brake set ring/point than the top of the riser/inside connector link.
There is an "optional distance" between the "brake set ring/point," and the "area, ring, loop" that the excess line will pass through, that will give the least amount of slack between these two points, and still allow for the easy passing of the toggle nose through the excess loop first before being inserted into the brake set line loop. The ring I used brings the -excess line pass bottom point- below the top of the riser only about 1/2 inch, but above the bottom of the riser webbing bottom loop area. Note, that some canopies have longer or shorter excess line lengths-so, ideally you would want a pass area/ring in the optimal location, for the above said reasons.
Alan--Also, what is the advantage to this method?
DB--Very secure--looks very clean and logical--been doing it for 1K jumps, with zero malfunctions, "until I trusted someone else, that should have known better--if he was unfamiliar with this method, he should have just asked myself.
Alan--Any disadvantages other than the one indicated?
DB- None known
Skies,
Dave Brownell

[erezy 0]

Being that I am that jumper from Israel, and I have just passed on to a different place, other than Eloy, it took me a while to see this and response.
I have over 600 jumps, and a lot more pack jobs than that to my credit.
I do not always set the brakes the way Dave does it, but seeing him do it before, and being it was his parachute I was jumping, I figured when in Rome...
I packed the canopy when he landed, including the brakes, and jumped it. Everything was fine, and when I landed, as a habbit, I set the brakes, though the canopy was not packed, but placed in the bag as Dave left for the day.
I set the brakes exactly the same way as before, when I jumped the canopy, and they worked for me. The only thing that I can think of is since Dave has complained about the canopy flying not in a straight line, and talked about checking the lines at hme, that he did something while checking the lines after he left that day.
If it was my fault, then I do apologize, but I really doubt that I did something wrong.
Erez Yaron

[DBTECH 0]

Erez Yaron said>
Being that I am that jumper from Israel, and I have just passed on to a different place, other than Eloy, it took me a while to see this and response.
I have over 600 jumps, and a lot more pack jobs than that to my credit.
I do not always set the brakes the way Dave does it, but seeing him do it before, and being it was his parachute I was jumping, I figured when in Rome...
I packed the canopy when he landed, including the brakes, and jumped it.
DB> You did not pack the canopy after I landed, as you would have had no idea of my prototype ram-air sleeve, along with it's anti line dump feature-or putting it the container.
Erez> Everything was fine, and when I landed, as a habit, I set the brakes, though the canopy was not packed, but placed in the bag as Dave left for the day. I set the brakes exactly the same way as before, when I jumped the canopy, and they worked for me.
DB> As I said, you never packed my canopy. (but you did flake and pod it only)(I set the brakes first)(I also put it in my prototype sleeve and also the container.
The only thing that I can think of is since Dave has complained about the canopy flying not in a straight line, and talked about checking the lines at home, that he did something while checking the lines after he left that day.
DB> Sorry, I never changed the brake set method when I got home, as it looked ok-then I packed.
Erez> If it was my fault, then I do apologize, but I really doubt that I did something wrong.
DB> Yes you did, but I never should have assumed that the brakes were set correctly--I have been setting my brakes this way for 1000 jumps with "never" a single malfunction--I never would have put the entire toggle/line through the passed through excess line loop with either toggle, let alone both!
I do in fact forgive you, as you are obviously not familiar with this method. (You should have just asked.
Dave Brownell