Alternative to closing pin

[skreamer 1]

I have seen some freefliers with the following mod to their rigs : they have had their closing pins replaced with 3 to 4 inch sections of cable. There are two cables as well, for extra security. It is similar to the way a reserve is closed. Since I am learning freeflying, this mod does have appeal to me from a safety point of view. I asked around, one tandem master recommended putting cypres gel on the closing loop and cables to prevent the closing loop being worn out too quickly by the friction of the cables when deploying. I spoke to the club rigger about this (who does the mods) and she said that the gel could make the cables brittle and said you were better off just changing the closing loop more often.
So, I have two questions really:
Have any of you had this mod made to your rig, alternatively have any of you riggers made this mod and what are your opinions on it?
Secondly, what are your opinions on the use of cypres gel to prolong the life of the closing loop?
I haven't made this mod yet, but am strongly considering it. I would particularly welcome some opinions/advice from experienced riggers on this one.
Thanks
Will

[PhreeZone 14]

Is this cutaway cable or a metal cable?
Do I HAVE to do another raft dive???

• Quote

[skreamer 1]

Yellow cutaway cable.

[skybytch 259]

The direct bag static line systems I worked with all had a length of cable instead of a pin. The loops on those rigs seemed to wear out faster than the loops on the sport rigs I was packing.
This is an interesting mod; I never thought about using it on a sport rig. I'm curious to see what some of the riggers and more experienced jumpers here have to say about it. Thanks for posting about it skreamer! pull and flare,
lisa
---
I chose the road less traveled. Now where the hell am I?

[PhillyKev 0]

What is it about this mechanism that would make it safer to freefly? Does it decrease the likelihood of premature deployment? And if so, what is the trade off in terms of intentionaly deployment? Would a pc in tow be more likely?
cielos azules y cerveza fría
-Kevin

[Aviatrr 0]

I have never heard of anybody using something like that on a sport rig.. I can't see any benefit, but I can see at least one drawback.. My closing loop is quite tight.. With a cable, I could end up with a kink in it, causing a hard or impossible pull..
I'm interested in hearing why people use this..
Mike

[wildblue 4]

Mike,
I've heard of people doing this a few years ago, and most people I've heard talk about it strongly discourage for that reason - getting it kinked and/or the cable getting pulled into the grommet. I really don't know how it could offer more/better protection. Get a good pin check on the plane, keep your loop tight and in good order, and there's nothing wrong with a good 'ol fashion closing pin.
Then, I saw these two guys swoopin across the pond, and I was like 'weeeeeee!!!!'

[skreamer 1]

Mike, I have actually seen this on quite a few sport rigs. One benefit might be less risk of a horse-shoe malfunction as a result of a closing pin being released prematurely. But then again a tight closing loop would also prevent this problem.
As for a kink in the cable, don't static lines, student freefall rip-cord rigs and tandems all use cable? I can't recall hearing of a student on a rip-cord having an impossible pull because of a kink in the cable. And since this method uses two cables, I would think that would be even less of an issue.
Will

[spectre230 0]

[BenW 0]

Spectre,
Here I think, we are talking about freeflying, not high speed exits. The possibility of haveing your pin knocked by someone in freefall is a far higher risk than when doing RW or high altitude exits.
I think the idea is that somone bashing the bottom of your container on a pass is less likely to knock out two lengths of kevlar line than a small curved closing pin.
Doesn't mean the kevlar can't get kinked though....
B.

[DBTECH 0]

As far as cut-away cable being used for a pin in a throw out system, I think it would be ok as long as there was a small guide ring attached to the flap close to the grommet. It's purpose would be to ensure that the cable was pulled on the same plane as the grommet, thus not lifting on the closing loop during pull, causing more loop wear. The required pull force would also be less with a guide ring.
I would not depend on the cover flap for this purpose.
Dave Brownell
Mesa, AZ

[riggerrob 558]

Sounds like a good idea to me. If you are worried about your pin getting knocked loose prematurely, then replace it with a piece of cable. Cable main closures have been standard on Strong tandem rigs for many years now.
There are at least four types of cable used in the skydiving industry: bare, clear coated, yellow coated and black coated.
The bare cables are only used on Strong tandem 3-ring release cables. They use an exotic cutting machine that leaves smooth, rounded ends.
Clear coated cable is used for main closing loops on Strong tandem rigs. Clear coated cable works well, but it is a high wear item. Every pack job, you have to inspect it for fraying or cracking. Cracked cable should be discarded post haste.
Yellow coated cable is widely used for 3-ring releases, but I doubt if it is stiff enough for closing main containers.
Finally, there is a stiffer cable with black coating that is used for AFF main ripcords. Black cable would be my first choice for closing a main container. But move quickly, as main ripcords are rapidly dissappearring from the AFF program.

[Aviatrr 0]

Quote

As for a kink in the cable, don't static lines, student freefall rip-cord rigs and tandems all use cable? I can't recall hearing of a student on a rip-cord having an impossible pull because of a kink in the cable. And since this method uses two cables, I would think that would be even less of an issue.

Most student rigs and tandem rigs that I've seen don't have closing loops as tight as I keep mine.. I can just BARELY get the closing pin in my rig.. If I put a cable in it, I'm sure it would be pulled down into the grommet.. I'll experiment with it next weekend.. I'm not going to jump it that way - but I'll be swapping out mains several times over the weekend, so I'll just try it when I do that..
BTW, I have a different way of preventing a horseshoe.....it's called a Pull-out.. ok, ok....we won't go down that road again..
Mike

[174fps 1]

I was just over in the UK for a short visit.
Naturally I couldnt go for long without my altitude fix,
so I took my rig.
I was doing a 2 way RW and the other jumper had this mod
on his rig.
Never having seen it before, I asked what the benefit was
and was told that because the cable bends there is less
chance of movement in the plane causing premature deployment.
The cables would have to be replaced if they showed any wear.
andrew

[3fLiEr 0]

Someone said you posted about this - yeah i use it - See my recent post - i just wanted to know opinions on the use of two closure loops - i would not go back to the curved pin - I feel this set up is alot safer. If you have any Q's let me know!!
BSBD

[AHetherington 0]

Skreamer,
I have never seen this mod on a sport rig myself, but it seems feasible. I am a S/L J/M and we use the teflon cables on our static lines and another type of plastic cable for ripcords, and I have never seen a problem with them not deploying. I would think the only possibility would be the kink, but if you avoid putting the loop over the exact same spot(i.e. right against the bridal) on every jump or storing the rig packed for an extended period of time (months), you should not have a problem. I think this will come down to a personal preference. I freefly with a normal pin and have never had an issue, but that's on a vector III with excellent built-in pin protection. Personally, I will stick with what I have. As for the closing loop, the wear isn't so fast that you will replace your loop every week, and I think it would be cheaper to buy one extra loop each year than to mess with preventing wear.

[freeflynick 0]

I use 2 teflon cables instead of a curved closing pin. Two yellow teflon coated pins are used to prevent the cable from kinking or pulling throught through the grommet if the loop is tight.
Yes, it will wear your closing loop fast, but when was the last time you were charged for a closing loop, and if you were, a beer will usually cover the cost!
The advantages are:
- It will be far more difficult to push out the pin in the plane or during a freefall collision etc.
- Should you have bride line come loose in freefall, there is that much more distance that your pin has to pulled before you have a premature opening and possibly a horse-shoe.
I have put about 500 jumps on my current teflon pins and they are in great condition. No kinking (and I like a tight loop as much as anyone!), no wear, and more importantly, no pre-mees and/or horseshoes!
You have to make sure you have enough loose bridle between your pin and your bag as if this is too tight it can cause a container lock. I have never come across a rig that doesnt have enough bridle there, but your packing method may need to be changed slightly to lengthen that loose bridle slighty.
Also, there is the possibility that if your cable cracks, the metal cable might be pulled out of the yellow teflon leaving the teflon in the loop causing a container lock, but regular inspection would avoid this (plus, when the wire is out, a reasonalby tight loop may well pull the coating thru the grommet and the first thing you would notice is when you go to close your rig and find silver there instead of yello!)
I recommend this, but I ain't no rigger, so speak to one of them first!!

Hobbes: "How come we play 'War' and not 'Peace'?"
Calvin: "Too few role models."