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Climber71
I did tunnel & AFF in Deland. For me it was excellent.
The tunnel has a habit of breaking down there but its really worth the investment.
There are some very good tunnel instructors from Deland who coach there most nights. PM me if you want the details.
Although i am a low number jumper - the tunnel has enabled me to be far more confident and skilful than you'd expect with less than 30 jumps. Although it clearly doesn't improve your canopy skills - if you've had a good time before you pull you'll feel more confident once the canopy opens.
Also, during the plane ride, if you know you'll have no issues on stability once you've exited, then there's less stuff going around in your mind before the doors opens.
JMHO.
Blue Skies
(I am in the UK)
I did tunnel & AFF in Deland. For me it was excellent.
The tunnel has a habit of breaking down there but its really worth the investment.
There are some very good tunnel instructors from Deland who coach there most nights. PM me if you want the details.
Although i am a low number jumper - the tunnel has enabled me to be far more confident and skilful than you'd expect with less than 30 jumps. Although it clearly doesn't improve your canopy skills - if you've had a good time before you pull you'll feel more confident once the canopy opens.
Also, during the plane ride, if you know you'll have no issues on stability once you've exited, then there's less stuff going around in your mind before the doors opens.
JMHO.
Blue Skies
(I am in the UK)
Olmed 0
QuoteI think those skills have about 100% transference to skydiving. Tunnel time for skydiving is a good investment, I feel. The AFF students I've seen with tunnel time tend to do very well.QuoteI am still not sure how much I directly have so far been able to transfer my skills into a skydive.
Finally managed to dock in sit last weekend, it truly felt as a milestone
In a skydive it is so much more to consider and speed is really fast. Then you have the rig. So this has been a barrier to overcome before transfering more tunnel skills into the sky. But again, I am still just a newbie in both tunnel and sky!
QuoteThis is one factor contributing to canopy collisions.
Really?
I think you just made that up. But if you have anything else to go on other than "well it sounds plausible", by all means fill us in.
--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan
"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan
"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?
Madison 0
Really? I need to explain this one?
I thought I was pointing out the obvious in the first place. 
Here are a few things that are contributing to canopy collisions these days as pointed out by a fellow jumper:
Bigger airplanes=more canopies.
Wind tunnels=false sense of security under canopy.
Higher wingloading is cool=rapid downsizing.
First man down=lots of confusion.
Full face helmets =not hearing well, seeing well or yelling well.
More than 90's=high speed, low vision, little outs.
Some people have 1,000 jumps, some people have one jump 1,000 times.
Old school landing techniques vs. new school.
Dirt diving the skydive, never dirt diving the canopy flight.
Fighter jets, cargo planes and 182's all landing at the same "airport".
Ok, you can digest this how you'd like, but next time please don't use the statement "fill us in", it implies that some are on the same uneducated plane as yourself.
Blue Skies,
April
Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want.
JohnMitchell 14
Really? What teams do that?Quote
Use the tunnel, but do what teams do then& devote hop&pops to exits & canopy work over and over again.
I agree that the tunnel doesn't teach canopy skills, but that can be learned by normal means. Some people just don't do a good job of learning. Others have the right of way but get killed anyway.
![[:/]](/uploads/emoticons/dry.png "[:/]"){kind=small}
QuoteReally? I need to explain this one?
Actually, yes.QuoteWind tunnels=false sense of security under canopy.
This is the part I disagree with. There is no link in my mind, and I think about this stuff as much as the next guy - no need to disparage my education level just because I ask you to explain why you think something I disagree with.
So basically, according to you, there isn't any evidence for it, it hasn't been implicated in any of the real, horrible accidents under canopy recently. It just sounds likely to someone you were talking to. It's just "obvious."Quoteit implies that some are on the same uneducated plane as yourself.
Thanks for clearing that up.--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan
"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?
JohnMitchell 14
Although I agreed with many of your reasons, this one is the weakest. You don't need a lot of tunnel time to have a false sense of security under canopy. I feel it's an attitude thing, not a tunnel thing. My son has been very conservative under canopy.Quote
Wind tunnels=false sense of security under canopy.
Zenister 0
QuoteReally? I need to explain this one?
I thought I was pointing out the obvious in the first place.
please provide a link the the canopy collision that was caused by a "Tunnel Rat" being less familiar with the canopy flight portion of the skydive than their freefall skills would suggest.
until you do you are talking out of your ass.
____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.
While I was in Deland a couple weeks ago I overheard IFly had another fan issue and would be closed to fix it. The tunnel does help alot IMO; I did 20 mins in it before my AFF. As for finding a canopy, as a beginner after you get your A you should be looking at a wing loading of 1.0:1 until about 100 jumps(search wing loading chart in the forum, there's a few really good posts). I am basically the same height and weight as you. Gear adds about 15-20 pounds so a 170sq canopy will be probably where you end up.
My canopy progession so far has been: 5 jumps Navigator 240, 20 jumps Navigator 220, 5 jumps Navigator 200, 15 jumps Silhouette 190, 2 jumps Sabre2 170(which is the canopy I just bought). Not sure what wind conditions you've jumped in so far, but on windier days a 240 won't give you much penetration on your base leg(or if you've found youself downwind of the landing area).
My canopy progession so far has been: 5 jumps Navigator 240, 20 jumps Navigator 220, 5 jumps Navigator 200, 15 jumps Silhouette 190, 2 jumps Sabre2 170(which is the canopy I just bought). Not sure what wind conditions you've jumped in so far, but on windier days a 240 won't give you much penetration on your base leg(or if you've found youself downwind of the landing area).
nigel99 143
QuoteAlthough I agreed with many of your reasons, this one is the weakest. You don't need a lot of tunnel time to have a false sense of security under canopy. I feel it's an attitude thing, not a tunnel thing. My son has been very conservative under canopy.Quote
Wind tunnels=false sense of security under canopy.
Not a false sense of security, but I feel it is related. There are alleged incidents (based on posts on dz.com over the years), that certain people with significant tunnel time have skipped AFF levels, or got onto 8 ways etc within a very few jumps.
The tunnel doesn't teach exit skills, tracking skills or any of the skills necessary to fly in a busy sky. A typical AFF student spends their first few jumps essentially alone in the sky.
The cases I mention are extremes though, for your typical jumper tunnel time almost certainly increases your safety. The simple fact that in FJC you can focus on emergency skills and you already know that you can get stable has to help.
Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.
JohnMitchell 14
When I taught my son's AFF class this summer, there were 4 other tunnel employees in the class. I didn't spend very much time teaching arching.
I know of one very adept young man who grew up on the DZ as a third generation skydiver. At 16 he started jumping, static line method. He was diving late and docking on 10+ ways before he had 20 jumps. And he was doing it very well. A lot depends on the person.
With that said, the maddest air skilz in the world won't save you from a bag lock if you don't know your EP's. Every student needs their attitude in the right place. Some need to have it adjusted for them.
But most people's problems in AFF come from poor air skills. No one's been flunking their level III repeatedly because of poor canopy control, at least not that I've heard. That's why I say tunnel time is such an advantage.
I think what he meant was that his skills in the sky are not on par to his skills in the tunnel. I also know that I can do much more in the tunnel than I can in the sky, part of that is the fact that you have restricted space so you are forced to fly in proximity and you are matching speeds to the tunnel not to the other people in the sky.
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