ClayFowler 0 #1 July 26, 2001 I have a PD 190 9 cell F-111 loaded at 1.28. I have a standard pilot chute(on it when I bought the rig) and I am wondering how much performance I am losing by not having a Kill Line PC? Is it worth my time and money to change it out. How much is a K/L PC. I think the neighborhood is $75. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aviatrr 0 #2 July 26, 2001 Quote I have a PD 190 9 cell F-111 loaded at 1.28. I have a standard pilot chute(on it when I bought the rig) and I am wondering how much performance I am losing by not having a Kill Line PC? Is it worth my time and money to change it out. How much is a K/L PC. I think the neighborhood is $75. I don't think you would actually notice any performance gain by switching to a kill line PC.. A PD190 is not a fast canopy to begin with.. Kill line PC's really make a difference on fast flying high performance canopies - not so much on slower lightly loaded canopies.. Don't waste your money.. Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phastasphuk 0 #4 July 26, 2001 My rigger made my P/C collapsible with a bungeecord...same effect as kill line, but you have to beware of it when you do hops 'n pops...needs a little higher airspeed to work..Cost me 10 $....chrisHow would you like too stick with meHow much do you love to freefall Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #5 July 26, 2001 QuoteDon't waste your money.. Not right now at least. Clay, if you do plan on keeping your container, though, you might want to go ahead and invest in a kill-line in anticipation of slapping in that new ZP eliptical you are Jonesing over. If that is a ways down the road and you want to get the same effect for zero dollars, then cut out your zero grommet, and pound in an eight grommet. That is what we all used to do "back in the day". What happens then is that your bag will fly back and collapse your pilot chute after opening. It is hard on pilot chutes, but who gives a shit. People will give you stock pilot chutes for nothing if you ask nicely. When you do decide to get a ZP kill-line, then holler at me and I will get you the skymonkey hook-up.Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ClayFowler 0 #6 July 26, 2001 Phatasphuk: Ummmm....I think I'll stay away from any "Shade Tree Mechanic" mods to my rig....LOL. Thanks for the input though...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ClayFowler 0 #7 July 26, 2001 Skymonkeyone: Now that sounds like something I may try. Skymonkey hookup is the POOP!!!!!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phastasphuk 0 #8 July 26, 2001 QuoteI'll stay away from any "Shade Tree Mechanic" mods to my rigWTF...this is a highly sofisticated mod for maximum performance...seriously, it's good...if you wanna do hops n pops, just undo the knot on the bungee cord, thats what I do. And you don't have to worry that you had forgotten to uncock your kill line...not that anyone will do that ofcourse, right?It's quite common back home, but that is not the US...chrisHow would you like too stick with meHow much do you love to freefall Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lazerq3 0 #9 July 26, 2001 Hey phastasphuk, I have the same set up on my pilot for my PD170 and was told the same thing. To give a couple seconds to get some speed before deploying on hop n pops. I,ve done a couple already and have had no problems. One person tryed to argue with me "well what if the plane is going down at like 3000 or 2000ft?" I kinda got cocky and told him " gee..I dont know about your rig but mine came stock with a reserve!"jason Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phastasphuk 0 #10 July 27, 2001 Quote "well what if the plane is going down at like 3000 or 2000ft?"No one has argued with me about this, but this setup is common back home. But if the plane is going down below 800 m and i have my bungee "in action", hey ho silver...If you know your gear and know under which circumstances to use which chute, no problem...And I might add that the performance gain i got with this setup is very much noticable, and thats with an old raider 220! I chosed the bungee option instead of a kill line, cause I didn't want to add another thing to my packing routines as I had just started pro packing.But I liked the "bigger grommet" option...now THATS cheap!chrisHow would you like too stick with meHow much do you love to freefall Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #11 July 27, 2001 You all missed the point " ... loaded at 1.28"When you start loading a canopy much more than 1:1, collapsible pilotchutes make a difference.For example, I load my Sabre about 1.29 and a collapsible pilotchute makes a noticeable difference in glide, flare and surfing performance.As for the arguement over kill-line vs. bungee: I have a kill-line on one rig and a bungee cord on my other rig.I have repacked a bunch of reserves for people who forgot to cock kill-lines, but have had only had one scare with my bungee. On a poorly-planned hop-and-pop I threw my pilotchute too early and got a pilotchute-in-tow. I just held my arch for three more seconds and the main opened fine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Geoff 0 #12 July 31, 2001 I'm not a rigger, so this may be bullshit, but I've read that bungee systems should only be used with a ZP PC, because the drag of F111 (sorry 0-3 cfm) will decrease with use, and eventually may not be enough to inflate against the pull of the bungee. Made sense to me.Also remember you shouldn't use a bungee PC with a wing-suit, if you were ever considering it.Personally, I think the centre-line system is better overall as long as you remember to cock it. I always 'snap' my PC through the air after cocking it to be darn sure it'll inflate when needed.Geoff Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alan 1 #13 August 1, 2001 The bungee collapsible pc's that I am familiar with are calibrated to 80 mph or less. The exit speed of most aircraft commonly in use today is 90 mph IAS or more. That would mean that the pc should be pretty effective at exit. They can and do get out of tolerance with repeated use, but with normal, routine care and inspection, it will serve you well for hundreds of jumps.BTW, about shade tree modifications. Adding a bungee and changing the grommet amount to about the same thing.alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
