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FallinWoman

F111 v. Z-P

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Let's see. In the beginning, there was darkness, and out of the void, God created light.
It's that kind of a difference.
The porosity of f111 means that to create the same something-or-other, the wing has to be thicker, which inherently creates more drag (along with the air leaking out), etc. and so forth. You get the idea.
The ZP canopies are better wings, they simply perform better. Try one and see, although its hard to compare because size differences also come into play. Comparing two similarly-sized canopies isn't fair, but trying to match some other parameter will be difficult as well, because there will be size differences.
I'd almost venture to say that rounds are to f111 canopies as f111 canopies are to ZP canopies, but again, in both cases you are comparing apples to oranges (and oranges to pears).
But, as usual, I have no idea what I'm talking about.
Carl
BTW, Omri said something in his interview about canopies being made of Teflon and Silicone. It this was the ZP coating is made of?

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Hey fallin,
Personally from experience f1-11 is stone age fabric.
Jump one and then try a ZP. The Difference is like night and day. With the F1-11 fabric, the air is let thru. Which will let the canopie collapse allot easier. So when you flare the canopie kinda colapses which just slows your forward speed more into downward speed. As to ZP it will stay more inflated, and provide flare power till there is very little air being pushed into the front of the canopie.
After my first ZP jump I never wanted to go back to f1-11. The landings are softer there is a better turn rate, and it is allot more fun to fly.
This is my opinion, others may disagree.
-Nums

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I'd like to see the moron that would jump a stiletto design made out of f1-11.
It might work if that person was wingloading less than 1 to 1. That is about all that f1-11 will take. And usually f1-11 will fly for around 1000 jumps. Then it needs to be treated. ZP flies for around 2000 to 3000 but once they are gone they are gone.
And No they don't make f1-11 stiletto's.
-Nums

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F-111 and 0P fabrics are about the same when they come off the loom. Then they go through a series of calendarizing and coating processes to reduce permeability. 0P fabric gets an extra coating of silicone that seeps in between the threads to seal all the gaps between threads.
When comparing the best new F-111 fabric with 0P you have to look twice. It has a porosity/permeability of 1.5 cfm and is almost as shiny and stiff.
New canopies made of both fabrics fly about the same. The difference is in durability. By the time the 0P canopy is getting its third set of lines at 600 - 800 jumps the F-111 canopy is being retired.
F-111 has the advantage when it comes to easier packing and softer openings. Most reserves are built of F-111 fabric because that was the best fabric available when they were certified in the 1980s.
F-111 has almost disapeared from main canopies and I expect that ten years from now most reserves will be built of 0P as well. But by then we won't need parachutes because we will all be landing our wing suits! Ha! Ha!

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Prior to my FIRST reserve ride a few weeks ago, it had been quite a few years since I had jumped an F111 canopy. I have to say I was simply stunned at what that reserve canopy felt like. Of course....it was also the difference between an FX loaded at 1.8 and a Micro-Raven at about 1.3....but still!!!! What a pisser. I mean, granted, of course it's what one would expect, but still it was quite a bummer of a canopy ride. I think my next reserve will be a VX.
==B-D
Lindsey
"I live with fear and terror, but sometimes I leave him and go skydiving!"

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I'd like to see the moron that would jump a stiletto design made out of f1-11.


This guy jumps an Esprit 135, and wants to know what "moron would jump an f-111 Stilletto design. ~~~~
Just rippin ya num...
Mike
I ponder on this dangerous, but irresistible pastime- Pink Floyd

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I would have to agree with Num's first post...
I have put 100 of my 107 jumps on a F111 canopy, but when I was trying out my considerations for new canopies and jumped z-p...man, I didn't want to put a single jump on another F111 main. (part of this could be that I am jumping a recently converted Raven 1 reserve, but still, you would think it would open a little lighter). I am tired of getting whacked and it doesn't seem to matter how I pack it [haven't tried the psycho pack yet, but everthing else makes me regret dump time]
When I jumped my Fury, and before that a Raven IV, my landings were always sketchy at best. The odd stand up here or there, but more often than not...bum slides (and on a new jumpsuit!:(). My 7 z-p landings have been SWEET AS stand ups with a little turf surf to throw in the mix!!
as far as fly-ability...well, there is a recognisable difference in performance with z-p to F111, but I have had others tell me that they can tweek an F111 main to be "just as good" as a z-p. I don't want "just as good" I want BETTER!!!
I would listen to riggerrob on this, but if you ask...z-p for me!!
Kia Kaha,
Pyke:P
NZPF A - 2584

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Here I am dating myself again here, but who cares. Anyway, yes, the Excalibur was a shit-hot parachute and it was made out of F-111. I literally BEGGED PD to make me a zero-p excal 120 when ZP came out on the Sabre (and the Blue Track), they refused me because they said it was WAY too labor intensive. FYI: Rixter Powell had a neon pink zero-porosity Excal 135 which was the only one they ever made. They also said that a Sabre flew "about" as good as an Excal; not quite true, but fairly close. The usefull high-performance lifespan of an Excallibur was about 400 jumps, then you had to sell it to your lighter friend (I sold mine to Rixter Neely who still jumps it believe it or not). The bottom line is that a brand-new F-lll Stilleto would fly exactly like a zero-p one, for a little while anyway. So, that being said, to the guy looking for the "moron" who would jump that canopy, I am your man.
F-111 still has it's place in the market. It makes for some great demonstration parachutes; just ask the Golden Knights.
Chuck

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Hey Mike,
Just to let U know, I havn't jumped that canopie for quite a while. Currently I am jumping cobalt and stiletto 135's. And have been for past 200 jumps. And taking shit from U, someone who wont even admit what he's jumping..Haha!!!! Just had to mess with ya back!!!
-Nums

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And taking shit from U, someone who wont even admit what he's jumping..Haha!!!!

Aaahhh, man! Took the low road! The sad part is, I'd admit what I had if I owned a damn main! I sold my sabre a month or so ago, then f-ed up and used the cash to pay bills....I know...DUMBASS! Anyway, now I am saving for a crossfire...Of course, I've got that PD 7 Cell that I have to freepack into my dad's rig since it won't fit in mine (or his technically.) Thanks for stabbing back though!!
Mike
I ponder on this dangerous, but irresistible pastime- Pink Floyd

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