Slowfaller 0 #1 March 28, 2001 I'm thinking about buying a Talon container w/ velcro reserve flap, a downward facing tuck main flap and BOC. I am pretty new to the sport ( 25 jumps ) and i was wondering what your thought are on this container. I'll also probably put a saphire 150 in there. Give me your thoughts and feedback whether its positive or negitive. i.e. problems w/ talons and so on...blue skies, cold beerchrisps: the container w/ reserve is $500 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HopnPop 0 #2 March 28, 2001 Chris, I am assuming that you are talking about the container Kirk has in Active Ware. That container would be good for belly-flying but I am not sure if it would be OK for free-flying. The best person to ask about that would be Kirk or Donna. Keep in mind that that container is “old technology” so it would be pretty hard to find a buyer for it if you decide to sell it. Saphire is a good canopy but I think you are going to get bored with it pretty fast. You should demo some fully elliptical canopies. I have a Stiletto 135 that you welcome to try. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vlad 0 #3 March 28, 2001 Stiletto at 25 jumps ? Hmm, very wise advice...... :(((((( Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slowfaller 0 #4 March 28, 2001 Leo, thanx alot man, I would like to try that stiletto as long as landing is not much different, i'd probably pull at 4k or maybe 5k and play until 1k then set up my landing pattern. i think as long as i dont do anything stupid i'll be able to handle it. the safire has given me a stand up landing 22 out of 25 times so i might take you up on that offer.blue skies, cold beerchris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zennie 0 #5 March 28, 2001 Dude, Vlad's right. I only have 25 jumps myself and there's no way I'm jumping a Stiletto at my experience level. Sabre or Spectre, sure, but a Stilletto is highly elliptical and I'm not ready for that yet. Especially at a higher wingloading.------------Blue Skies!Zennie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slowfaller 0 #6 March 28, 2001 i guess i'd have to see a stilleto in action. I dont think i know what im getting myself into. I'd also like to get an opinion of one of the jm at my DZ. They probably know how good i am at flying a canopy better than i do. we'll see...blue skies, cold beerchris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HopnPop 0 #7 March 28, 2001 Chris, In my opinion landing a Stiletto is slightly easier than landing a Saphire. Stiletto has a flatter glide and tends to surf on landings. What is your exit weight? I was jumping a 150 Saphire when I was doing my AFP and I got a Stiletto 135 about 20 jumps later. Are you going to be at SDC this weekend?Vlad,Skydive Chicago student program uses only elliptical canopies. Going to a Stiletto or a similar elliptical canopy only seems logical. It's not the canopy that kills, it's the pilot.Edited by hopnpop on 3/28/01 01:23 PM. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkySlut 0 #8 March 28, 2001 I also would talk to some more people...I have 145 jumps, 0 biffs-all standups and there is no way in hell my dealer would consider selling me a fully elliptical canopy. I consider myself a pretty good canopy pilot too. If you were to try to buy a new Stiletto from a dealer they usually ask how many jumps you have and they typically dont sell ellipticals to people under 200 jumps I believe. "I'll jump anything!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slowfaller 0 #9 March 28, 2001 At skydive chicago you do your 3rd jump ( AFP lvl 1 ) using a safire which is partially eliptical canopy and I was told by a JM there that a stelleto would be my next level. My jump weight is just shy of 155lbs. and i dont swoop, personally i think swooping is flirting with the injury fairy. anyway ill be at Skydive chicago on sat after traffic school and probably sunday too. Leo, tell nancy in manifest to page me or if she has seen me, im probably the youngest jumper there ( off student status ) and won't be hard to point out.blue skies, cold beerchris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkySlut 0 #10 March 28, 2001 Its a free world, dude...I wish you the best!!! Let me know how you make out."I'll jump anything!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slowfaller 0 #11 March 28, 2001 Barry,I'm totally not trying to rag on you and be a Mr. know it all. I'm just young, stupid, and crazy. But above all that, i definatly follow the golden rules. I'll definatly stay ahead of the jump and i leave lots of room for error. Thanks for your best wishesblue skies, cold beerchris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vlad 0 #12 March 28, 2001 HopnPop,That's right, that's the pilot who kills himself. Do you think that person with 25 jumps (and may be even 250 as well) is a GOOD PILOT ??? I have not flown the Stiletto, but have talked to a lot of persons that have. Their opinion is that you should have several hundred of jumps before you can swithch to Stilletto/ Crossfire. Landings can be similar to Spectre of Safire, but the difference is that Stilletto (especially highly loaded) will not forgive mistakes, that Spectre would.2Snowfaller : read the incident reports in Parachutist and/or on the web. Calculate the percentage of those deaths that are due to pilot's inability to safely handle his canopy. Would you rather be bored under your canopy or in the hospital or grave ? By the way, this month's Parachutist has an interesting article about demoing high performance gear. YOu should read that. 2HopnPop. I have the same number of jumps as you do. And I know for sure that I DO NOT KNOW my canopy (Omega 160) that well. It takes hundreds of jumps to really understand its flying characteristics. It is your choice to jump it but you should not convince people with low amount of jumps that this is a very safe canopy. Call Performance Designs and ask them if they would recommend Stiletto for a jumper with 25 jumps...WHy do you think there is a jump number limit for Stiletto at any reputable gear store ? Those rules have been written by blood...Just my .02Prigaite bezopasno ! :)))Edited by vlad on 3/28/01 05:34 PM. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HopnPop 0 #13 March 28, 2001 Chris,My exit weight is about 170lbs and I have about 70jumps. I don't think you will have any problems landing/piloting my canopy. I think you are confusing hook-turning with swooping. Swooping is not dangerous, it only becomes dangerous when you use a hook-turn to get a longer, better swoop.Vlad,I don’t want to start another pointless discussion about which canopy is “safe” and which isn’t. My opinion is based on my person experience with this canopy and recommendations of my jumpmasters. My opinion is neither wrong or right it is just MY OPINION. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slowfaller 0 #14 March 28, 2001 Leo,Kirk was telling me that the talon would be alright for freeflying for now but i definatly would want to upgrad to an all flap system eventually, all i need to do is get some credit so i can get a credit card and by like a javilin w/ it. Kirk is going to replace all the velcro for free if i buy it so im going to try it on and i asked him if i could use a canopy to do one "test" jump b4 i buy it.blue skies, cold beerchris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tee 0 #15 March 29, 2001 Hey Slowfaller. I have a Talon1 container, it is a newer version of the one you are getting but the fit isn't much different. It is a very comfortable rig, lots of padding on the leg straps and the back, and easy to pack. If you do decide to go with it for a first rig, I think you will be very happy.Tee Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tigra 0 #16 March 29, 2001 I know a stiletto for someone just off student status sounds crazy to most of you but Skydive Chicago is a very progessive dz, and some of the students are jumping stilettos before they graduate. Leo and Chris have probably NEVER jumped F111, and nothing larger than a 170, unless they were visiting another dz and renting gear.When I went through AFP in 1996, it was sabres, and THAT was unheard of everywhere else, and many dealers did not want to sell a sabre to someone with 50 jumps. Now a sabre is considered old technology and perfectly fine for beginners. This sport is constantly evolving. Anyway, PD and Icarus are making these canopies and selling them to Skydive Chicago knowing that students will jump them, and yes, that includes the Stilettos. Right or wrong, Roger's theory is that you might as well train the students on the gear they will end up buying. AFP students are on radio until they graduate, and I think the program is up to 18 jumps, not including tandems. No, that's not a lot, but they do get some supervision and training flying a high performance canopy. How many levels of AFF are there before they stop the radio? How many of you went from jumping large f111 canopies to smaller zero p? Without the benefit of a jumpmaster talking you down on radio? So, its not quite as crazy as it seems. That's all I'm trying to say. Blue ones! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkySlut 0 #17 March 29, 2001 Slowfaller...do me and yourself a favor and call up PD and ask them if someone with 25 jumps should be jumping a stilleto at a 1.1+ wingloading. If they say fine...go ahead. You may be planning ahead for the jump, but I just had a friend go in...I am sure that he thought he was planning on what could happen but its the things that you dont expect that come with experience that could bite you...thats what happened to him.Do what you want to do, but please just do some research and get educated first."I'll jump anything!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mattb 0 #18 March 29, 2001 Ahhhh - it's easy to see who jumps at SDC and who learned at more traditional dropzones. I'm not going to say who's wrong or right. I agree with the throught process that students should learn on ZP elliptical / slightly elliptical canopies because that's where the sport is today. Student's should not learn on 1980s or even 90s technology. I've got 45 jumps (most at SDC) and have jumped Safires, Triathalons, Spectres, and Stilletos. I bought a Safire because it was available. I'd loved to have found a used Sitlleto but I'm a big guy at jump a 190 (1:1.3ish wing loading) because I like their landings. That being said I'll jump the Safire for a season, get some packing experience, and buy a new canopy.Anyways I had to post with all the other SDC jumpers saying hi. I'll see you this weekend if the weathers good if not I'll be out in two weekends.blues,-mb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cyberskydive 0 #19 March 29, 2001 Not sure if this goes well with the conversation, but F**ck it-LOLI came back to the DZ after a long layoff, I put on a few pounds (more like 30-LOL) after some desicion making I decided aainst jumping my normal main, and going with something more forgiving. I did it no problem.Lesson?when you come to a dz, leave your freakin ego at home, youll have plenty of time to jump the cool whiz-bangs.D.Chisolm C-28534[email protected]http://www.sunraydesigns.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Slowfaller 0 #20 March 29, 2001 I just want to say thanx to everyone who contributed to this thread. Sounds like the most contaversial thread in here which had made me realize b4 i jump a 135 stelleto im going to try a 135 safire. it i like it im going to put a 135 in my container rather than a 150. What up to all the skydive chicago represent, matt, maura, leo. and maura, ronco up at skydive illinois says to say hello. Everyone up at skydive illinois seems awesome and i was suprised to hear that they are going to install a 15' wind tunnel by thanksgiving.blue skies, cold beerchris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. 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tigra 0 #16 March 29, 2001 I know a stiletto for someone just off student status sounds crazy to most of you but Skydive Chicago is a very progessive dz, and some of the students are jumping stilettos before they graduate. Leo and Chris have probably NEVER jumped F111, and nothing larger than a 170, unless they were visiting another dz and renting gear.When I went through AFP in 1996, it was sabres, and THAT was unheard of everywhere else, and many dealers did not want to sell a sabre to someone with 50 jumps. Now a sabre is considered old technology and perfectly fine for beginners. This sport is constantly evolving. Anyway, PD and Icarus are making these canopies and selling them to Skydive Chicago knowing that students will jump them, and yes, that includes the Stilettos. Right or wrong, Roger's theory is that you might as well train the students on the gear they will end up buying. AFP students are on radio until they graduate, and I think the program is up to 18 jumps, not including tandems. No, that's not a lot, but they do get some supervision and training flying a high performance canopy. How many levels of AFF are there before they stop the radio? How many of you went from jumping large f111 canopies to smaller zero p? Without the benefit of a jumpmaster talking you down on radio? So, its not quite as crazy as it seems. That's all I'm trying to say. Blue ones! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkySlut 0 #17 March 29, 2001 Slowfaller...do me and yourself a favor and call up PD and ask them if someone with 25 jumps should be jumping a stilleto at a 1.1+ wingloading. If they say fine...go ahead. You may be planning ahead for the jump, but I just had a friend go in...I am sure that he thought he was planning on what could happen but its the things that you dont expect that come with experience that could bite you...thats what happened to him.Do what you want to do, but please just do some research and get educated first."I'll jump anything!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mattb 0 #18 March 29, 2001 Ahhhh - it's easy to see who jumps at SDC and who learned at more traditional dropzones. I'm not going to say who's wrong or right. I agree with the throught process that students should learn on ZP elliptical / slightly elliptical canopies because that's where the sport is today. Student's should not learn on 1980s or even 90s technology. I've got 45 jumps (most at SDC) and have jumped Safires, Triathalons, Spectres, and Stilletos. I bought a Safire because it was available. I'd loved to have found a used Sitlleto but I'm a big guy at jump a 190 (1:1.3ish wing loading) because I like their landings. That being said I'll jump the Safire for a season, get some packing experience, and buy a new canopy.Anyways I had to post with all the other SDC jumpers saying hi. I'll see you this weekend if the weathers good if not I'll be out in two weekends.blues,-mb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cyberskydive 0 #19 March 29, 2001 Not sure if this goes well with the conversation, but F**ck it-LOLI came back to the DZ after a long layoff, I put on a few pounds (more like 30-LOL) after some desicion making I decided aainst jumping my normal main, and going with something more forgiving. I did it no problem.Lesson?when you come to a dz, leave your freakin ego at home, youll have plenty of time to jump the cool whiz-bangs.D.Chisolm C-28534[email protected]http://www.sunraydesigns.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slowfaller 0 #20 March 29, 2001 I just want to say thanx to everyone who contributed to this thread. Sounds like the most contaversial thread in here which had made me realize b4 i jump a 135 stelleto im going to try a 135 safire. it i like it im going to put a 135 in my container rather than a 150. What up to all the skydive chicago represent, matt, maura, leo. and maura, ronco up at skydive illinois says to say hello. Everyone up at skydive illinois seems awesome and i was suprised to hear that they are going to install a 15' wind tunnel by thanksgiving.blue skies, cold beerchris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
