Talk back

[skymama 35]

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How can one be "overdue" for a donation?

She said she was ready to make a donation this week until she found out that TB was closed. From her post...For me, a forum is a way to kill time when I'm bored. Its amusement. Remove the fun, and it isn't worth as much to me. ...I'm just saying the forum did provide to her what she wanted already with her 14.1 posts per day. She already got her money's worth out of it, so to speak.

I'm not going to haggle over $20 donations nor do I want this thread to turn into a discussion about it. It's my belief that anyone who spends a lot of time here should donate out of the goodness of their heart until the site pays for itself through advertising.

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[diablopilot 2]

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I'm just saying the forum did provide to her what she wanted already with her 14.1 posts per day. She already got her money's worth out of it, so to speak.

Didn't think of it like that. Good point, kinda like having terms on an invoice, pay after.....

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It's my belief that anyone who spends a lot of time here should donate out of the goodness of their heart until the site pays for itself through advertising.

Agreed times a bazillion.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Harksaw 0]

My two bits:

Talkback could use:

1. Clearer rules as to what is allowed: From what was labeled, it was for "anything non-skydiving related" to be discussed, and now there are complaints that there is too much non-skydiving related stuff discussed? If its political debate you don't want, have rules against that.

2. Perhaps an instant ban for starting "Why did my thread get deleted" threads?

3. People need to realize that old saying about arguing on the internet. . .

__________________________________________________
I started skydiving for the money and the chicks. Oh, wait.

[tunaplanet 0]

What you fail to grasp, John, is that this is not a democracy. It's not a court of law where you can whine about free speech, etc...

The religeous, political and gun control threads got old real fast. There's nothing wrong with debating them, but the problem lies in almost no one on those threads knew how to politely debate them. They turned into personal attacks, insults and bashing threads. Did we really need 83,015 of those a day? Hardly. Not to mention you were the one that started the majority of those. Why? Completely useless.

The interesting fact is I've spoken with 2 seperate people who have met you in real life, one of whom is a friend of yours. Both said that never talk about these issues in real life. Not once have you discussed these in repetition as you do on the site.

So I ask you, why the split personality?

Is it because you don't have the nerve to talk about them in real life so you do it from the safety and comfort of your computer? I have my own opinions as to why but I'll keep those to myself.

In conclusion, there's no need for those threads over and over and over and over again...all with the same results.

Let's all show some common sense. Afterall, you were one of the reasons Talk Back was removed.

Forty-two

[Jessica 0]

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The Team Members are in the dungeon working on it.

Do you need any coffee and bagels? I assume Bill provided all the S&M equipment you'll need.

Whatever you guys decide, I think it's cool. I made a lot of friends via Talkback back in the day, but that was a different age.

Skydiving is for cool people only

[skymama 35]

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Do you need any coffee and bagels? I assume Bill provided all the S&M equipment you'll need.

Thanks, Jess! It's getting late in the day, so I think we could use some beer and pretzels. I think we'd get a lot more done if we could just get Bill and Lisa to concentrate on the work instead of tying each other up. ...kids these days.

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[Nightingale 0]

I was going to donate to ensure the continued survival of a free service that I enjoyed. Since that service is no longer accessible, the reason for my wanting to donate has been removed. Should that forum come back and remain, its safe to say that I'll definitely toss some cash out to support it.

[skybytch 259]

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I think we'd get a lot more done if we could just get Bill and Lisa to concentrate on the work instead of tying each other up. ...kids these days.

He started it. Instead of whining about it here why not tell him to untie me, and tell Remi to knock it off with that wierd Canadian stuff already.

My 1 1/2 cents on the subject of donations (not that what I think or say matters in the slightest). I've "donated" countless hours of my personal time, my former employers time (thanks Kate and Tony), my current employers time (thanks Jack and me) to these forums by voluntarily moderating. I've sent HH a repack. My business pays for an ad in Talkback (btw, that ad costs us $200 per month and has gotten no views since yesterday when TB was shut down, but that's not my point and I don't expect Sangiro to discount the cost of that ad because TB is shut down for awhile).


I donate time and money to dz.com because I get far more out of this website than I'll ever put into it. Close all of the forums and dz.com would still have value for me. I was using this website's resources before I started posting in the forums, and I continue to use the other resources on a nearly daily basis.

My wish is that Talkback could be like it was "back in the day" but I know that with the size of the community that is no longer possible.

My biggest fear is that with Talkback not available the topical forums will be used as Talkback 2,3,4,etc...

[Luv2Fall 0]

I just sent a little something - it isn't much, but I hope it helps...........

[Remster 24]

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that wierd Canadian stuff

Just trying to expand your limited horizons.... geeeze.... cant pleas ethem people....

Remster

[AndyMan 7]

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My wish is that Talkback could be like it was "back in the day" but I know that with the size of the community that is no longer possible.

That's the nutshell for me. I'm ALMOST one of those people who say I really don't care if it ever comes back. I'm almost at the point where it really doesn't have any value anymore.

The value it used to bring was as a Community Builder. Back when there wasn't critical mass in the topical forums, talkback was needed to attract people to the site. When there were 2 posts a day on the safety&training forum, it was the reason to come here. That reason doesn't exist anymore. Dropzone.com doesn't need the talkback forum. The topical forums won't suffer if it disapears.

There are still people that come only for talkback, but for the most part these people are largely imposters, or they're people who "some day", "might" make a single skydive. If these people don't show up because talkback is gone... no loss as far as I can see.

Talkback has lost all value as "community builder". You won't meet new people by reading talkback, there's just too much crap in there that only the most prolific posters are recognizable. People are still making new friends, and great things are happening, its just not happening in talkback. The group of women going to Vegas happened in the women's forum, not talkback.

The real friendships on this board are now being formed in the other forums.

I said I was "almost" at the point where I'd not care if it ever comes back, and the only reason I care at all about it is because of the history. There was a time when my gf at the time posted her Ta-Ta's when I was away at x-mas. I later married that gf, and I still go pull up that thread just for a laugh. Likewise, there's thread where I've just gone and professed my love for her - I know she's be upset if that thread disapeared for ever. There's tidbits of history in there that are important to people, and it suck if that was gone.

But history is history, and if now is the time to move on, we can deal.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[Nightingale 0]

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My biggest fear is that with Talkback not available the topical forums will be used as Talkback 2,3,4,etc...

unfortunately, that's very likely. People get something in their head that they just HAVE to tell all their friends, and post it in the general area because there's nowhere else to put it, and surely THIS post is important enough...sucks, but it happens.

I've been on a couple of boards that have had to add a chit-chat area just because otherwise they couldn't keep the main part of the forum on topic otherwise. Areas for junk posts are kinda a necessary evil, it seems.

[pilotdave 0]

The longer talkback is down, the sooner the entire site will turn into rec.skydiving2. Talkback REMOVES the noise from the other forums like a sponge. Besides, talkback is the only place for skydiving related chat since that's not allowed in general skydiving discussions. Not having talkback is simply going to move those threads there.

What exactly caused talkback to be shut down? Number of useless threads? Delete em. Number of political/religion threads? Make a rule against em.

Dave

[Kid_Icarus 0]

I agree that talk back is crucial to this site. I am new here, but also enjoy that aspect of the forums. It's like hanging out at the end of the day in the hanger, shootin the $hit. It IS part of skydiving. If I don't like a topic I just don't click. Sorry, but I live in Utah where tons of people tell you what to do, where to buy beer, where to pray and what not. Talk back was and is great and a necessary part of dz.com.

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"What What.....

[billvon 2,395]

>True, I can go there to read all I want about politics, but I also want
> to discuss politics from time to time.

http://www.politics.com/discussion.html

[Kid_Icarus 0]

Another analogy, Talk back is like the break room. It can't be all business, it's not that kind of sport. We need to socialize and sometimes, if we can't visit the dz or people, Talk Back is the only way we can get to know someone or groups of people. Dz.com rocks, thanks for providing such a great arena!

________________________________________
"What What.....

[Lee03 0]

If there is a fee to use "Talk Back" I guess I will have to leave the forum. I cannot afford to pay anything. Of course, I guess there maybe could be those here that would like to see me gone and not ever return. The problem seems fairly simple to me. Two topics, politics and religion, seem to be what has caused all the problem. My suggestion would be to have a seperate forum for politics and religion. This way, those that wish to discuss these two explosive, and potentionally disruptive topics, could have a forum to post on, and the majority, that don't want to be bothered with the topics would have "Talk Back" to carry on as they always have. I was a mod on a forum that had this same problem several years ago. That is what they did, created a seperate forum for thiose two topics. It worked out great. No political or religious discussions or fights anywhere except for inside that forum. All other forums carried on as normal without the problem. I think it would work here, and hope it will be considered. I would like to see "Talk Back' re-opened. It was the best forum here, I miss it greatly

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To put your life in danger from time to time ... breeds a saneness in dealing with day-to-day trivialities.

--Nevil Shute, Slide Rule

[Dagny 0]

My feelings on talkback and the options presented here: I would not pay money to be able to read and/or post to talkback. It simpliy isn't that important to me. However, that being said, I enjoyed reading talkback as much I do the other areas of dz.com. The majority of my posts were to TB and the reason for that is because I'm a newbie skydiver who took one too many lectures on my lack of experience in the field. It was suggested to me that I not post advice or suggestions in the skydiving forums due to my inexperience and lack of instructor licenses. Look, listen, learn was what I was told. I took that to heart and have done that. I no longer post to the other forums unless I'm asking a question. Without TB, I do not "contribute" to this forum or participate actively, other than to lurk.

The money issue is difficult. I would most likely pay to be a member of this website, but not for TB. Money is really tight, I live off of the loans I get for school and, for the next two months, tip money. I can barely afford to skydive, can't afford equipment, I'm working just to pay my bills and live. Unfortunately, if I had an extra $20, I would put it to real life experience on a jump, rather than the website. Not saying I wouldn't pay, but that I would have to budget it in and that's not necessarily easy.

As for TB, I just skip over threads that I feel are primarily meant to incite. I also skip over the threads which are infuriatingly repetitive. But, I read quite a few of the others and enjoy posting. Despite my lack of interest in some threads, I personally would hate to see them deleted or banned. Yes, it IS a skydiving website, but we are also people with varying opinions and ideas and I, for one, think that as a multi-dimensional group it is beneficial to have an outlet to discuss topics other than skydiving as well.

Granted, it's not my site and my opinion probably means very little, to nothing, in the grand scheme of things.

Take me, I am the drug; take me, I am hallucinogenic.
-Salvador Dali

[Keith 0]

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You have to dig through a lot of dirt to find a few gems.

True, but there's no reason for people to pile on the dirt just because they think they can.

Keith

Don't Fuck with me Keith - J. Mandeville

[bertusgeert 1]

I kinda hope talkback closes down....that will take care of my addiction...I will spend a lot more time a lot more productively!!!

Honestly though, I just like hanging out with a bunch of cool assed people online when I cant be at a DZ. You all (most of you all) rock!

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As jy dom is moet jy bloei!

[Luv2Fall 0]

I just pictured a cat covering up his own shit....................mental images lol.

[nathaniel 0]

FWIW maybe the administrators of this domain might want to consider how the folks at arstechnica run their openforum Tho it's an IT oriented site, their forum and arrangement faces the same kinds of problems described here. You can see the approaches they take-- they've got a similar approach to this set of forums, what stands out to me is
* levels of access: unregistered / registered / paid
* ironfisted moderation that's fairly open. To maintain an appearance of order and justice they announce things like bannination, but at the same time they have no tolerance for moderator-baiting.
* in particular, the flame oriented forums are paid subscription only
but the main site itself is unabashedly commercial and has lots of original content with daily updates...IT seems like a faster industry than parachuting

nathaniel

My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski?

[Kramer 0]

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The majority of my posts were to TB and the reason for that is because I'm a newbie skydiver who took one too many lectures on my lack of experience in the field. It was suggested to me that I not post advice or suggestions in the skydiving forums due to my inexperience and lack of instructor licenses.

Ditto.

Another thing, without Talk Back, General Skydiving Discussions will probably slowly evolve into Talk Back anyway. People are going to talk about what they want to talk about, whether there is a place for it or not. Already today I saw one new thread in there that started out "this should probably be in Talk Back, but..."

Just my half a cent worth o' shit.

The FAKE KRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMER!!!!!!!!!

[JohnRich 4]

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What you fail to grasp, John, is that this is not a democracy. It's not a court of law where you can whine about free speech, etc...

I grasp that just fine, thank you. But that doesn't mean that I can't offer my opinions on how things should be run, just as you do.

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The religeous, political and gun control threads got old real fast.

Solution: skip over them. Others enjoy them, so let them have their fun. They tend to generate high read counts, indicating that a lot of people are following them.

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There's nothing wrong with debating them, but the problem lies in almost no one on those threads knew how to politely debate them. They turned into personal attacks, insults and bashing threads.

I personally have never been warned or locked out for such behavior. When things go that direction, the proper action, IMO, is to punish the wrong-doers, but to let the innocent continue the discussion.

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you were the one that started the majority of those. Why?

Gosh, I started non-skydiving discussions in a forum for non-skydiving discussions. Horrors!

Why? Because I and many others enjoy hashing out those issues, and I learn from the views of others.

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Completely useless.

That may be your personal opinion, but I don't believe that your personal preference for topic selection should be the guide by which all others must comply.

How hard is it for you to skip over stuff you don't like?

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The interesting fact is I've spoken with 2 seperate people who have met you in real life, one of whom is a friend of yours. Both said that never talk about these issues in real life.
So I ask you, why the split personality?

Gee, I didn't know you were so obsessed about me.

I talk about many subjects with many people. Just because two people haven't heard me do it, doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. I talk about guns quite a bit with other shooters. Besides, at the drop zone there are usually other things to talk about, like why the exit funneled, or what kind of 4-way dive to do next. Sometimes during idle times at shooting matches, I even talk about skydiving. So what?

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Is it because you don't have the nerve to talk about them in real life so you do it from the safety and comfort of your computer?

I am not afraid to voice my opinion about anything, to anyone. Nor to listen to the opinions of others. And I don't hide behind a fake name, like some other people in here . I'm not afraid to have people associate my opinions with me as a person.

I post my messages under my real name, unlike you. I provide my real name in my profile, unlike you. I post a real picture of myself in my thumbnail photo, unlike you. So exactly who is it again that has a split personality and lacks nerve?

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In conclusion, there's no need for those threads over and over and over and over again...

That is not for you to say. It's for the people who enjoy participating in those topics. Since they get a lot of views and posts, I would say that they aren't "useless" at all. They're actually quite popular, and good intellectual stimulation.

Some people prefer the "boobies", "I'm drunk" and "I'm bored" threads, which is fine by me, but they're not my cup of tea. But I'm not going to go around calling them "useless" and advocating that they be banned. It takes my eyeballs only about half-a-second to skip over them.

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Afterall, you were one of the reasons Talk Back was removed.

I have yet to see any notice by any moderator in explanation as to why it is shut down. All I've seen is speculation. So I think you're jumping to conclusions.

And since I was operating completely within the posted guidelines of the forum, for both topic content and civility, you can hardly blame me for its shutdown.

[Dagny 0]

Sigh. Where would we be without all this testosterone and machismo?

Surely we can say that everyone who posted to talkback felt that their post was worthwhile in some way, otherwise why post? No matter the motivation, the fact is that the talkback forum was specifically cited as being for "non-skydiving related discussions" and was treated as such. Clearly, something got out of hand. Rather than speculate or justify our personal decisions to post or the subject matter we chose to discuss, perhaps we should pursue a different course of action. Sangiro knows why he shut down the TB forum. If he wants our opinions on how to deal with whatever was problematic, surely he will post about the problem and invite suggestions as to how to amend it. Or maybe he won't, it's his prerogative. Until Sangiro specifies something further, I'm thinking that all this deliberation is ineffectual at best.

Take me, I am the drug; take me, I am hallucinogenic.
-Salvador Dali