Identity Status Suggestion

[airtwardo 6]

Sangiro~

Here's an idea that would be quick & easy...
Not too far "over the top"
And a possible helpful aid in areas other than
establishing credibility for the poster on this site.

On a members Profile page,
have an area for the listing of
Licenses...Ratings...Awards...Certificates.

With a clicky that would bring up a JPEG
of said documentation

Strictly voluntary and optional...
but it occurs to me that most 'dedicated'
. commers would proudly display their
earned "diplomas'

And users may find at some point in time
that the 'stored' information is the ONLY
copy readily available.

For example;

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Liemberg 0]

Quote

For example;

Just for the fun I opened your JPEG with windows 'Paint', erased your name and put a text there, to show how easy that is. (Like five minutes)
I would have uploaded "MY" 25 years achievement diploma, but it gets to be above 60kb.

Believe me, if Sangiro goes that way, my fifteen year old could show "proof" of all sorts of ratings and achievements, almost as fast as you guys could upload them on your profiles...

(Which is not to say that your idea isn't sympathetic...)

"Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci
A thousand words...

[SkydiveMonkey 0]

Nice idea, although very easy to photoshop things like that.

____________________
Say no to subliminal messages

[airtwardo 6]

I understand that...

But...

Those types of things are EXTREMELY easy
to cross reference...

If you are found to be misrepresenting your
qualifications...
and follow through by creating fraudulent documents
to post...
you probably pretty much used up your welcome.

And could then be dealt with accordingly.

In the world of skydiving...
Documenting your own decite is the most blatent form
of 'felony stupid'...

You are merely proving,
what your real peers already know about you.

I've seen enough pencil whipped ratings to
tell even when someons HAS the actual documentation...
it can be meaningless...

But if you post with the intent to deceive or mislead...
There is another site that no doubt suits you better...

Send 'em packin'!

Or...
At least add the quote to their Avaitar...

"This person has proven themselves,
to be full of shit."

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[airtwardo 6]

Just to add to my comment~

There are those that truly love this sport
for it's basic purity.

"The goodwill ambassadors" so to speak...

We all know them, the guys that shelve their
ego to help a struggling student.
Praise the achievements of others instead
of belittling them with boasts (true or not)
of their own.
The rigger that cleans your rig,
and packs your main at no charge...

on and on...

These people are what make the sport fun,
make it grow.

I've said it many times before...
Increasing our positive visibility,
and growing our numbers can only serve
to help us all continue this obsession.

This website is without a doubt the single
most powerful venue I've ever see with which to
carry a message to the masses in that regard.

Now I fully understand that this is H.H.'s race car
He bought it...he tunes it...he gets to drive with no
back-seat advise...

And ya gotta admire his skill in keeping it in the middle of the track!

It attempts to 'satisfy' as many members of our little subculture
as possible....
with a request to stay within fairly simple guidelines.

But in reality,
as the numbers Sangrio mentioned above show...

This site is growing in cosmic dimensions.

Don't we owe it to not only ourselves,
but to the visitors and public in general,
to spotlight the 'personalities' that through their continuous
negative trolling seem to have the single intent
of disrupting the "dive"!?

And RUN them...

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Liemberg 0]

Quote

Those types of things are EXTREMELY easy
to cross reference...

With 25000 registered users and 800 more joining every month?
Just recently I saw a profile from someone in Egypt that claimed to have just about every rating there is, with 176 jumps to his credit.

"show us proof"
(uploads arabic document)
"Hmm... Could be egyptian instructors license. Could be Koran verse. Could be Al Qeida claim letter..."

(Could be the guy is completely bona fide - just not much comprehension of the English language + a typo in the jump numbers...)

If it is physically impossible to wade through the credentials like they are right now, what can of worms are you opening with the uploads?

Bill Booth f.i. still hasn't found out how to make an URL clicky...

Quote

In the world of skydiving...
Documenting your own decite is the most blatent form
of 'felony stupid'...

With 25 years in the USPA you must be old enough to be familiar with the term "pencil packed", a term I never heard outside the skydiving community...

"Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci
A thousand words...

[airtwardo 6]

Quote

With 25 years in the USPA you must be old enough to be familiar with the term "pencil packed", a term I never heard outside the skydiving community...


***

Ever hear of 'questionable' pilots logging their hours
..."Flyin' a 'Parker'"?

As in he's got 1500 hours...
but 1000 of it's flying a Parker (pen)...

I understand you comments,
and mine was just a suggestion,
but I do think it's becoming more and more important to
'tag' the posers to "protect the innocent" so to speak.

(Who says I have 25 years...
might have photo shopped it myself!)

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

• Quote

[Liemberg 0]

"Flying a Parker" is new for me (the expression, not the practice. Flying club planes f.i. are somewhat notorious for flying "with two pilots in command" in my small corner of the world...)

Your USPA award?
I'll take your word for it

In this whole thread the "positive rating of the trustworthy" appeals more to me than "banning the fakers", simply because it would be easier to do it AND I think there is more to say for positive reinforcement when you want to influence human behavior.

"Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci
A thousand words...

[airtwardo 6]

Quote

I think there is more to say for positive reinforcement when you want to influence human behavior.

***

I recently spent a couple of weeks in your country.

A clean and beautiful place, where things work,
cities and roadways are well planned.
People are helpful and friendly, even to total strangers.
Everyone is concerned about the environment
and their resources.

That's the cultural difference between our
two countries.

Positive reinforcement where I live can be defined
by the example of those in my state who have
lived within the laws of our society,
and carry no criminal record....

Can legally carry a gun....
And shoot those with a felony!

Okay...
Bad example,
But you get my point!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

• Quote

[sunshine 2]

Quote

On a members Profile page,
have an area for the listing of
Licenses...Ratings...Awards...Certificates.

With a clicky that would bring up a JPEG
of said documentation

Strictly voluntary and optional...
but it occurs to me that most 'dedicated'
. commers would proudly display their
earned "diplomas'

I wouldn't post my stuff. I'll gladly show you my riggers ticket or license and coach rating in person, but i don't feel the need to post it on the internet. Any person with common sense can filter through who is genuine and who is not. And if they don't have common sense, well thats their problem.

___________________________________________
meow

I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug!

[Jimbo 0]

Quote

Any person with common sense can filter through who is genuine and who is not. And if they don't have common sense, well thats their problem.

Amen.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[airtwardo 6]

Quote

Any person with common sense...

***

Unfortunately common sense isn't all that common!

Especially for someone new to the sport that hasn't
developed the B.S. filter so important when asking
advise.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

• Quote

[Clownburner 0]

If I might make a modest suggestion...

One of the concepts in public-key cryptography is a 'web of trust' - we might be able to use the same concept here to achieve the same goals. Similar to the system Flighty first outlined, but instead of having a moderator manage the process, you have the moderators 'vouch' for the first round or two of users, and then allow users who are 'known' to vouch for the identity of other users.

That way, If Sangiro trusts me (that's a stretch, I know) and knows who I am, he can mark me 'known', and if I know Sunshine, I vouch for her; when a user who is 'unknown' gets vouched for by a few Known users, they too become known. You'd be able to see in the profile who's vouched for that person, so you could decide if you trust them or not based on that information.

Accomplishes a lot of the same thing, but reduces the administration nightmare by decentralizing it. Not a perfect system, but it's certainly scalable.


EDIT: it occurs to me that this might also encourage social behavior and people coming to the official gatherings to meet people in person so that those people will vouch for them online...

7CP#1 | BTR#2 | Payaso en fuego Rodriguez
"I want hot chicks in my boobies!"- McBeth

[tunaplanet 0]

I have to ask this question. Who freakin cares about anyone's status, number of posts, popularity, etc... It's all trivial at best. What is the point of all of this. You guys are taking a website that was fun and educational and turning into something far less with these ideas.

Like I said before. Be skeptical of everyone, don't trust info from one person over another just because their status or post numbers are rated higher and most of all...and I do mean most of all, use your freakin head. Use the noggin for instinct and intuition and quit relying on worthless info like post numbers, status, Snopes, gypsies and palm readers. You have a brain for a reason. Use it.

Forty-two

[Clownburner 0]

I don't recall telling people not to use their common sense.

But feedback/rating systems, if they're not based on something arbitrary (like post numbers) actually can improve the usefulness of a site. A good example is ebay: Without the 'seller feedback' system transactions there would be much more risky than they are, and fewer people would participate.

Especially for those who haven't been around long, seeing that someone is who they say they are is a useful tool for weeding out the well-meaning incompetants from the maleviolent a**holes.

7CP#1 | BTR#2 | Payaso en fuego Rodriguez
"I want hot chicks in my boobies!"- McBeth

[Ron 7]

My two cents on the issue:

I think the moderators do a fair job of keeping the crap out.

I would like to see people having to fill out the Profile. For example..I don't hide who I am. My ID is my name, my profile is filled out..Blah, blah, blah.

There are some people on here that you have no idea who they are..And you could never find out anyway.

I take all those people and I don't trust them...If they are not willing to be able to be identified...Then everything they say is suspect to me.

I don't like the idea of a voted "rating" system. Quite frankly I'm sure my rating would suck. That does not make my words less true. But it would make them LOOK less true. I would hate to think an "unpopular" person who has all the crap I have (Ratings, time in sport, experience...ect) Be "rated" less than a "popular" person with 5 tandem jumps.

Get rid of the post number rating system....It just encourages people to waste bandwidth, and gives people false qualifications. Number of times you have hit "post reply" does not mean anything.

BillBooth (I know you love how we use him as an example) has less posts than me, but I shut up and listen when he talks.

I just think the moderators need to be a little more agressive at times...Like when a 100 jump wonder is giving canopy advice.

If you have to get more greenies that you trust.

Great place, great job....and I don't really miss TB to be honest. Although I am watching the "serious" threads get TB2 like now.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Nightingale 0]

I don't like the voting thing. some sites call it "karma" or "rating" or whatnot. We have it on the site I moderate, and when someone says something unpopular but true (happens a lot in both skydiving and among martial artists), their rating gets dinged not because they're being rude or whatnot, but just because people don't want to listen.

I like Clownburner's known/unknown idea. That would be cool.

[frig 0]

Seems like now is the popular time to add suggestions for the site. Here are mine suggestions on a couple recent topics:

User Ratings:
Use jump numbers + member since for most all of the members. Post numbers is too much of a competition for some people. For the pessimistic out there - yes you can fake you jump numbers, but that's life - some people lie. Continue to identify the moderators and add an 'Expert' rating that you have to apply for. In the application you would need to meet certain skydiving requirements such as 2000+ jumps, or whatever. This could be automated with several verification steps, or an application could be processed manually. Set the expert criteria high enough so you don't get too many applications. You can verify identity of the expert application with PayPal.

Anonymous Users:
Many people will want to remain anonymous in an online forum, but they still have positive contributions. I am a perfect example of someone who does not want to list my real name. That does not mean I am trying to deceive anyone - I just don't want my name listed in a forum with so many different kinds of viewers. I have limited experience and rarely post, but I have read hundred of posts over the last three years and learned some things I never heard about at my DZ. If I do post some information that it wrong, or if I have a 'dumb' question, it is then open for discussion on the board and everyone (including me) can learn from it and I don't have to hear about it when I go back to the DZ this weekend (I am speaking hypothetically here). I promise there are also frequent posters who do not want their identity known. If you try and identify everyone you will eliminate some potentially great skydiving threads that will never be started. It is also harder for a new user to post important information if they need to be identified first. You will get trolls among the anonymous but that is impossible to avoid. If you get too strict trying to enforce rules you end up punishing the community as much as you do the troll.

Voting system for users and posts:
This gets too political. People will manipulate polls, and voting favors emotion over fact.

TalkBack
Although this can be a very interesting place to read posts, it is distracting from the intentions as a skydiving related site. Having an online 'hangout' for the skydiving community is cool, but should be separated from DropZone.com.

[Rainbo 0]

Well I have been spending my time reading through this thread and something occurred to me. It has taken me twenty-something years to be known everywhere I go as Rainbo. People trust my word because they know me. They trust my abilities because they know them. I trust others because I know them. Most do not know my real name, really.

I say this because there is a lesson buried in there somewhere. It is not about what others say about you, it is what they know about you from experience, and you of them likewise. How you present yourself to those around you means more than all of the vouchers and verifications. People here often take a position that their opinion is almighty and all others suck. Then they wonder why they are not thought highly of.

I do not think Sangiro needs to spend more time and money to devise ways to give us authenticity. I develop that in other arenas,more high speed than my keyboard. I think we need to learn how to treat each other more like human beings deserving of respect.

Just my thoughts

Rainbo
TheSpeedTriple - Speed is everything
"Blessed are those who can give without remembering, and take without forgetting."

[JoeyRamone 0]

Entire profile completed with real name and verifiable email address

Upload scans of your ratings, licenses and certifications. (USPA card scan or certificates from your country acceptable)

Provide proof of your number of years in the sport (again, number of USPA membership years, scan of your logbook etc could do)

Provide proof of your jump experience including the number of jumps in the past year. (log book scans?)

Provide the nicks of at least 5 Dropzone.com members who can vouch for your identity.
***
Good ideas but I have jumped once in the last year.
I am a USPA member with 400 jumps, I have only jumped out of Skydive Chicago and never got my license as of yet, I do not know if I will jump this year or not but I do enjoy the site and most of the people on it.

I come to the site to see what is up in the sport, keep in contact with some old friends and to look at all the worthless topics in the” talk Back" section. I enjoy the stupidity of most of the post, I learn some interesting views on many issues from all the diverse people posting. I do not take any of to heart it is the internet, most is just small talk, a lot of kids talk. You can tell where most people are in life by the topics they post or reply too.

Why do you not just charge $5.00 a month to be a member and let the "talk" section just be what it is a lot of talk on whatever. Too many ego trips if you ask me but it helps pass the time for an hour or so a day.

Tim Ryan

[bertusgeert 1]

Quote

How you present yourself to those around you means more than all of the vouchers and verifications. People here often take a position that their opinion is almighty and all others suck. Then they wonder why they are not thought highly of.

I do not think Sangiro needs to spend more time and money to devise ways to give us authenticity. I develop that in other arenas,more high speed than my keyboard. I think we need to learn how to treat each other more like human beings deserving of respect.

I strongly agree with Rainbo, even though I dont kno you!

Various forms of validating identities are being discussed here, but go look at each one of them, they can be abused by anyone who decides to take advantage of this very cool community. All those forms of validation can be faked and forged. I dont think we will ever find an answer here. (I applaud everyones efforts, I find some of them quite ingenious!)

I am a three month old DZ.com user, and I love it, I have learned an incredible amount of skydiving info here. Talk Back was a fun area to "hang around the fire and talk shit". But it got out of control as we all know.

It has been suggested that some people "vouch" for others. I know NO-ONE on here personally, although I have made very good friends in the short three months I have been on here. I can now travel to various DZ's around the country and meet them.

All this said, I think the basic requirement should be to fill out your profile COMPLETELY. People can then decide for themselves if they want to trust you or not. It is easy by looking at someone's posts, and seeing how much crap vs. actual info they talk. The only system that works is by learning to trust for yourself.

For instance. Being relatively new, I went to Deland a few weeks ago. Being used to a few jumpers that dont know a whole lot, I met some people down there that were very willing to talk about their experience and tell stories and such. The first night there I thought... this place is full of egomaniacs that make up bullshit about themselves, trying to look good to newbies, and establish their place at this major DZ. But soon enough I realized. These guys stories were REAL, they weren't talking shit, they knew what they were doin, and they were openly sharing, because they were cool assed dudes. They were the true thing, they were there when the shit went down.

I say all this to show that only through listening did I realize these guys were the real thing, but I had to listen long enough. Someone that I trusted coulda told me that they were, and that woulda made me trust them, but this way of gaining someones trust will not work online. I had to decide for myself. And after that I had one of the funnest times of my life, talking to some real legends.

I hope you all understand the point I am trying to get across. Just as Rainbo said, just as in real life, learn to trust for yourself. I did in three months, and learned an awesome lot.

And by the way, this place, and you all, kick ass!!!

---------------------------------------------
As jy dom is moet jy bloei!

[nacmacfeegle 0]

I'm not sure we actually need this.
I've seen the forums self regulating on a few occassions. When someone posts misleading, wrong, or downright dangerous advice it is usually questioned or corrected pretty quickly.
Asshats will generally only post controversial stuff in non advisory or non technical forums like talkback.
And if you take advice from talkback, then you really need to either grow up, get real, or read the forum disclaimer.

I also think it might suppress tips that newbies may be prepared to share, eg the newbie may be unknown but they may be passing on great info from a relatively reliable source.

It may also lead to bizarre scenarios where a reliable source in one field may not be so reliable in another discipline. Say Kate Cooper posting about stuff in the camera forum, extreme example, I know but its just an example. No offence meant Kate, I luv ya and you know it.
Long story short, the forums don't need 'licensed' contributors. Although a few of us should be certified.

--------------------

He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[yoink 321]

Would it be possible when writing a post to set a filter for replies?

If I post a question in Gear and Rigging about canopy manufacture, and only want replies from riggers, couldn't there be some sort of dropdown menu to select the filter?

Anyone who tries to post can read the thread, but is effectively locked to them unless they have rigger filled in on their account.

This way people can set their own filters on things like jump numbers, ratings, time in sport even post number if they want.

That way, people who don't want infomation from 100 jump wonders can just filter them out...

Self-regulation type of thing?

Will

Admittedly, this may be open to abuse with people creating false ratings for themselves, but that's generally checkable.

[nacmacfeegle 0]

All you really need to do in such a situation is preface your post with...
"Question for riggers (full time tandem masters/certified packers/RW team camera fliers, etc the list is endless) only please"
This is quite common and seems to work fine.

--------------------

He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[Ron 7]

Quote

If I post a question in Gear and Rigging about canopy manufacture, and only want replies from riggers, couldn't there be some sort of dropdown menu to select the filter?

Anyone who tries to post can read the thread, but is effectively locked to them unless they have rigger filled in on their account.

Im not a rigger, but what if I just wanted to expand the question? And I know plenty of BASE guys that know lots about gear. Plus, I have more historical information than a freshly minted rigger.

Quote

This way people can set their own filters on things like jump numbers, ratings, time in sport even post number if they want.

That way, people who don't want infomation from 100 jump wonders can just filter them out...

The biggest problem I see with that is this:

Then people with 100 jumps might not be able to ask a question to the right people.

The big issue I have is the 100 jump wonder giving advice...Not the 100 jump wonder asking questions...I like to answer questions. That one of the three things I do here. They are in order:

1. Answer questions and try to provide information to make this sport safer.

2. Try to keep 100 jump wonders from giving bad advice.

3. Start shit. JK don't ban me!

Quote

Admittedly, this may be open to abuse with people creating false ratings for themselves, but that's generally checkable.

But who would do the checking?
I know several folks that have 10,000 jumps listed in their profile..And they ahve been jumping less than a year.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334