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dzswoop717

private tandem rating

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I did few hundred tandems 16 years ago. I own a jumpable plane (Cessna 180) and an airport. what would I need to do to take family and friends for tandems if I bought a tandem rig and wasn't charging any money. I had my Mom's 80th birthday party at my airstrip/home over the weekend and several family members asked if they could jump with me. I have no interest in skydiving for a business, been there ,done that. I would like to take close friends and family. My wife would jump with me on a regular basis if we were set up to do it. Where do I start.

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What would you need to do? The same thing as anyone else, get a current rating. Money not changing hands, or being married to the passenger are irrelevant. Their lives are worth just as much as regular commercial student passengers. Start by contacting the manufacturer of the rig you would like to buy.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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dzswoop717

I did few hundred tandems 16 years ago. I own a jumpable plane (Cessna 180) and an airport. what would I need to do to take family and friends for tandems if I bought a tandem rig and wasn't charging any money. I had my Mom's 80th birthday party at my airstrip/home over the weekend and several family members asked if they could jump with me. I have no interest in skydiving for a business, been there ,done that. I would like to take close friends and family. My wife would jump with me on a regular basis if we were set up to do it. Where do I start.



Federal Requirements:

1) Make sure you have a master license, assuming you're based permanently in the U.S. this means a D License from USPA.

2) Pass a current FAA Class III physical.

3) You will need to take a full tandem course to get your rating going again.

Personal opinion: you need way more tandem currency than what your family members could likely provide. You also need the mentoring and seasoning of others. Techniques change over time. Gear maintenance changes over time. Are you equipped to handle all of that on your own? Maybe you are, most are not.

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I did few hundred tandems 16 years ago. I own a jumpable plane (Cessna 180) and an airport. what would I need to do to take family and friends for tandems if I bought a tandem rig and wasn't charging any money. I had my Mom's 80th birthday party at my airstrip/home over the weekend and several family members asked if they could jump with me. I have no interest in skydiving for a business, been there ,done that. I would like to take close friends and family. My wife would jump with me on a regular basis if we were set up to do it. Where do I start.

Federal Requirements:

1) Make sure you have a master license, assuming you're based permanently in the U.S. this means a D License from USPA.



No,it does not mean it HAS to be USPA. It could be anyone that creates a syllabus and gets "recognized" somehow by the FAA.

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2) Pass a current FAA Class III physical.



Yes, you cannot get around this item.

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3) You will need to take a full tandem course to get your rating going again.



Nope!
Rating not required, just to have completed a course and been issued a certificate of completion.

The regulations state that the individual has to have completed a course by the manufacturer or has completed a course by someone acceptable to the Administrator.
Also,it does not list or have any currency requirements in the regulations other than the 500 jumps before the course.

Not saying that I agree with someone not being current, but just pointing out what the regulations actually state.

See below:

105.45 Use of tandem parachute systems.
(a) No person may conduct a parachute operation using a tandem parachute system, and no pilot in command of an aircraft may allow any person to conduct a parachute operation from that aircraft using a tandem parachute system, unless—

(1) One of the parachutists using the tandem parachute system is the parachutist in command, and meets the following requirements:

(i) Has a minimum of 3 years of experience in parachuting, and must provide documentation that the parachutist—

(ii) Has completed a minimum of 500 freefall parachute jumps using a ram-air parachute, and

(iii) Holds a master parachute license issued by an organization recognized by the FAA, and

(iv) Has successfully completed a tandem instructor course given by the manufacturer of the tandem parachute system used in the parachute operation or a course acceptable to the Administrator.

(v) Has been certified by the appropriate parachute manufacturer or tandem course provider as being properly trained on the use of the specific tandem parachute system to be used.



MEL
Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC
www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

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sounds like the FAA physical is a manufacturer requirement, not a law. I think you're a lot better off getting cleared by your family doctor who knows you a lot better than an aviation expert who never met you. It'll be harder to hide serious medical conditions from someone you been seeing a long time.

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I just got my 3rd class medical last month, I have a D license, I once held a uspa tandem instrustor rating and had gone through a manufacturers course. I had every rating there was from 1985 until 2002, I let them lapse when I got out of the business, but continued to fun jump and organize. The last couple of years I have slacked off and not jumped much. I hope to hit it harder next year. besides jumping more, what would be the steps to be legal and safe. I will not be jumping at a uspa dz and I have no interest in a uspa rating.

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I went through the then Vector RWS tandem manufacturer's training. I made all my tandem jump on a vector. What is todays equivelent or is there even any good used Vector rigs out there for sale? I'm sure there has been a bunch of updates and service bulletins over the years. Has the technoligy changed that much that a Vector tandem rig is obsolete to the point that they are unjumpable?

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masterrigger1

Don't know where you came up with that.
The FARs state that you are required to have a medical, so it is law without any doubt.


Which FAR is that? Definitely not the one that you quoted. The FAA medical is a USPA and manufacturer requirement, the FAA has never required any medical at all.

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A Vector2 rig as long as its still serviceable can be jumped. The Sigma is a much superior platform from UPT in my opinion. The entire release system is better and it is way more comfortable. I too let my rating lapse a few years ago but you need to really think hard if you want to drop the cash into a tandem rig since even a good condition used Vector 2 tandem is still getting 4-5K and a good used Sigma with canopies is 6-9k right now. Tandem courses are going for $350-500 plus the cost of the gear rental and slots so budget about $1000 for that. That's a lot of money for the rig plus the maintenance on it just to take a few tandems a year. If you get a Sigma you will need the Sigma endorsement plus the Vector 2 rating, most courses are only being ran on Sigma's right now so you will need to be really clear to the examiner your intentions so they cover the right instructions for your rig since there are a few situations where the procedures differ.

As for me, doing anything less than 100 tandems or so a year was not worth it for me since I never felt like I had got to the point of mastering all aspects that were needed to be a good TI. The only way to get more comfortable is to do a lot of jumps and that does not sound like something you are intending on doing so I would keep that in mind as you are looking at this.

You also need to consider the liability behind this, even if you are not charging for it and only taking family and friends there still is liability that if you injure someone or yourself then their insurance still may coming knocking looking to recoup some of the money they paid out. You will need a waiver at least plus the waiver that UPT/Strong needs signed for all tandem jumps to occur.

Also here is a note from UPT if you do get their rating:

Tandem Instructor Ratings must be renewed annually. To apply for renewal, you must have made at least 25 tandem
jumps within the preceding 365 days, and you must have made 3 tandem jumps within the preceding 90 days

CURRENCY REQUIREMENTS
In addition to yearly certification, Vector/Sigma Instructors are expected to maintain currency during the year by
covering all tandem emergencies while in a hanging-harness simulating canopy emergencies, and while wearing a
tandem system (standing on the ground) while simulating drogue and aircraft emergencies.
A.
If any currently rated Tandem Instructor has not made a tandem jump in the preceding 90 days, he/she must
make a minimum of one (1) satisfactory tandem jump with an experienced jumper acting as a student prior to
jumping with actual students.
B.
If any currently rated Tandem Instructor has not made a tandem jump within the last 180 days, he/she must
complete recurrent training before jumping with actual students.
C.
If any currently rated Vector/Sigma Instructor has not made a tandem jump in the preceding two (2) years,
he/she must attend a complete tandem training course covering the classroom/ground school and make a
minimum of three (3) satisfactory re-certification jumps.







Here are UPT's requirements to attend their course:

APPLICANT QUALIFICATIONS
Before an applicant may attend a tandem certification, the following criteria must be met:
•Be at least 18 years of age.
•Be a USPA license holder for a minimum of 3 years
•Hold a current USPA D license. *
• Currently possess,or at one time been issued, a USPA Coach, a USPA static-line instructor, or USPA AFF Instructor rating*
•Have logged at least 500 ram-air jumpsand accumulated at least 6 hours freefall time
•Has logged at least 100 ram-air jumps in past 12 months.
•Hold a current FAA Class I, II or III medical certificate.



If you look at Strong here are some of their course requirements:

Minimum of 18 years of age.
2. 50 jumps within the last year.
3. Jumpmaster or Instructor rating, or the Basic Instructor Course (BIC),
or coach.
4. One intentional or emergency cut-a-way.
5. Four hours of freefall time.
6. Current FAA Class III Flight Physical, or parachuting physical approved by a
national parachuting association or the military.
All Candidates must meet the FAA requirements and Strong Enterprises'
prerequisites before attending the Tandem Instructor Certification Course.
Proof of prerequisites must be shown to the Examiner. Along with original
logs and documents Candidate must submit copies of:.
a. Logs showing three years of skydiving experience.
b. Logs showing 500 freefalls.
3. Logs showing 50 jumps within the last 12 months.
4. Logs showing four hours in freefall.
5. Logs showing one cut away (intentional or emergency),
6. Expert license and ratings (J/M, I, BIC), coach.
7. Current FAA Class III Flight Physical, or parachuting physical approved by a
national parachuting association or the military.
8. Letter of recommendation signed by:
a. 2 Certified Tandem Instructors
b. Home DZ Owner/Manager
Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

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masterrigger1

No,it does not mean it HAS to be USPA. It could be anyone that creates a syllabus and gets "recognized" somehow by the FAA.



Other than USPA, please tell me the name of any person or organization in the United States that is currently being recognized by the FAA for meeting the requirements for a master's license.

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dzswoop717

I went through the then Vector RWS tandem manufacturer's training. I made all my tandem jump on a vector. What is todays equivelent or is there even any good used Vector rigs out there for sale? I'm sure there has been a bunch of updates and service bulletins over the years. Has the technoligy changed that much that a Vector tandem rig is obsolete to the point that they are unjumpable?




I can sell you an airworthy Vector V2. There are still many available I think. But they are getting old and tired. From a operator viewpoint Sigmas are the same. But there are packing differences. As you know, the emergency procedures on tandem are very different than on your sport gear. This is the main reason you should keep yourself current if you are going to do tandems. It's not dealing with normal jumps that you need to consider, it's making sure you are prepared to do proper EPs.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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I was in the dz business for 20 years and was raised on a dz, my father owned and flew jump planes from 1966 to 1996. I got my AFF rating in 1985 and did 1200 aff jumps and my tandem rating in the 90's and did a little less than 500 tandem jumps. I co-owned and operated a dz at the age of 25, I am now 54. I understand liability. As far as the cost goes, if I decide to go through with it, it will just be another expense that goes along with doing the aviation things I like to do. I am not rich but still have enough connections in the business to get a fair deal on a rig and an examiner who will come to my place to get me checked out again. As far as currency goes, I would probably do 30 to 50 tandems a year, with people I know, that I care enough about to give them an intorduction to the sport and to share my love of it. I would be doing the tandems at my pace and without a boss wanting me to jump in bad conditions with less than desirerable students. If what MEL said is true, If I got a Vector rig and went through recurrency training with an examiner I should be good to go.
I really miss sharing the sport with first timers but don't have the time or the stomach to be on a staff at a dz taking people off the street for jumps.

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Other than USPA, please tell me the name of any person or organization in the United States that is currently being recognized by the FAA for meeting the requirements for a master's license.



You must have missed my quote in another thread stating that the FAA does not know:
1. What exactly "recognized" is in the first place.

2. How one becomes "recognized".

With that said, my company, being a FAA known business (since I am a DPRE for them and also run a skydiving business), would meet the criteria of "recognized". I just issue myself a master skydiving license and we would meet the whole rule.


MEL
Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC
www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

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.................

You also need to consider the liability behind this, even if you are not charging for it and only taking family and friends there still is liability that if you injure someone or yourself then their insurance still may coming knocking looking to recoup some of the money they paid out.
................................................................
If you ever get dragged into a subrogation lawsuit, you will learn to fear lawyers more than you fear airplane crashes.







Here are UPT's requirements to attend their course:

APPLICANT QUALIFICATIONS
Before an applicant may attend a tandem certification, the following criteria must be met:
•Be at least 18 years of age.
•Be a USPA license holder for a minimum of 3 years
•Hold a current USPA D license. *
• Currently possess,or at one time been issued, a USPA Coach, a USPA static-line instructor, or USPA AFF Instructor rating*
•Have logged at least 500 ram-air jumpsand accumulated at least 6 hours freefall time
•Has logged at least 100 ram-air jumps in past 12 months.
•Hold a current FAA Class I, II or III medical certificate.



If you look at Strong here are some of their course requirements:

Minimum of 18 years of age.
2. 50 jumps within the last year.
3. Jumpmaster or Instructor rating, or the Basic Instructor Course (BIC),
or coach.
4. One intentional or emergency cut-a-way.
5. Four hours of freefall time.
6. Current FAA Class III Flight Physical, or parachuting physical approved by a
national parachuting association or the military.
All Candidates must meet the FAA requirements and Strong Enterprises'
prerequisites before attending the Tandem Instructor Certification Course.
Proof of prerequisites must be shown to the Examiner. Along with original
logs and documents Candidate must submit copies of:.
a. Logs showing three years of skydiving experience.
b. Logs showing 500 freefalls.
3. Logs showing 50 jumps within the last 12 months.
4. Logs showing four hours in freefall.
5. Logs showing one cut away (intentional or emergency),
6. Expert license and ratings (J/M, I, BIC), coach.
7. Current FAA Class III Flight Physical, or parachuting physical approved by a
national parachuting association or the military.
8. Letter of recommendation signed by:
a. 2 Certified Tandem Instructors
b. Home DZ Owner/Manager

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If you keep your USPA sport license current and paid for you will also need to get your coach rating first and the USPA tandem rating also. For the re-currency in the spring you might need to find an experienced jumper to come out and do the ride along to keep that current and legal. Once a year you will also need to get an Examiner, S&TA or Regional Director to sign off on your paperwork for the renewal also. All BSR's still apply even if you are not at a USPA DZ so all the fun stuff like night jumps and such are still prohibited. [:/]

It will not be hard to do it but its going to be a lot of hoops to jump through and expense to avoid getting in to commercial operations and needing a commercial pilot to fly if there is any money or goods being exchanged at all.
Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

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How often do you plan on doing tandems with family & friends?

Enough to stay current as a TI?

I understand where you are coming from, and it sounds like a fun idea, but it might be simpler and cheaper to find a TI with his own rig who is willing to come out to your place and do a few tandems every once in a while.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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There isn't really anyone around here who owns their own rig that doesn't have it leased to a dz. I could buy a rig and just pay instructors but I really miss doing tandems. In a non rushed fun setting I would enjoy it as much as the passenger. I have a few friends who are examiners, I'll talk to them.

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8. Letter of recommendation signed by:
a. 2 Certified Tandem Instructors
b. Home DZ Owner/Manager



Pretty sure this thread is a troll and this will get lost in the noise, but I think UPT should require this as well. When I took my rating there was another jumper who wanted to take the course with me who had a very hard time finding people who wanted to put in writing that they recommended he become a tandem instructor.

I don't think it will really keep bad apples out, but it can be a wake up call for people when they go to a guy they respect and ask for a recommendation and he tells them no. It also helps foster a mentorship attitude from the senior jumpers because they don't want someone they vouched for being a shitty instructor.

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Take a look at the United parachute technologies website. They have pricing (about $13k for a complete tandem setup), waivers for passengers, contracts for equipment owners, and passenger and instructor requirements spelled out. USPA ratings are required (as are waivers for every tandem jump).

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