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sky4meplease

Sitting on TI lap during climb-Creepy?

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Does anyone else think the climb to altitude with a Sigma TI is awkward when they have someone on their lap the whole time? We jump a Cessna and I can see how if riding up front you may need to place the student there prior to take off due to the fact that hooking up lowers and adjusting is difficult with the door closed.
In the back of the plane the student could sit between TI's legs on floor then hop up on lap prior to jump run.
I don't know it just creeps me out and I feel awkward when my customer finds out they or their daughter or wife will be sitting on some strange guys lap for twenty minutes or even one minute for that matter.
Overkill is under rated.

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I'm not going to judge on the "awkward" thing. But I will say as TI I would find it uncomfortable, and completely unnecessary. I've done nearly all my tandems from several different C-182s. I've never before seen or heard of such a thing. Both pairs always sit on the floor with the student between the instructor's legs. That is awkward enough for me.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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Watch out for turbulence, you could accidentally join the "Mile High Club".;)

“The only fool bigger than the person who knows it all is the person who argues with him.

Stanislaw Jerzy Lec quotes (Polish writer, poet and satirist 1906-1966)

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My tandem (from a caravan) had me sitting on the floor between his legs, until the last minute or so when I need to sit in his lap to finish the harness set up.

Not gonna lie that I was turned on so much at that moment! But I'm a pervert, so me getting turned on so easily really isn't a shocker. :P Does that make it extra creepy?

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I don't know about creepy, but definitely unnecessary. I have never had anyone sit on my lap for the whole ride up. I have on occasion had someone sit on my lap for hook up, and then only long enough to tighten the laterals.

I personally don't like having them sit on my lap. The only ones that I have done it with, are larger (fat) people when staying seated in the front of a narrow 182. Everyone else I can hook up just fine with them between my legs. I still get on my knees if I'm in the back of a 182, and will sometimes if I'm in the front. It is more work, but I think you get a better hook up.

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I am a TI with about 250 tandems out of a 182. That is totally creepy and unnecessary.

We go to 10k. I don't have them sit on my lap until 9k or higher usually (unless we are the only two in the plane and we are climbing faster than usual).
I am fucking your mom right now

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I have seen both male and female set that way so it's not just a female thing. It bothers me to the point I am ready to say if that is how they will hook up it has to be in the back of the ride and students sit on the floor until final hook up and adjustment altitude. And for Gods sake let them know ahead of time that is how it is done so the customer can opt out if they want. I would!
I have seen it done that way in a few different places and it never sits well with me.
Thanks for the input.
Overkill is under rated.

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the only time i had a passenger sit on my lap is when i am out first with a Cessna 185. i try to get as much forward as i can for take off. i am a big lad at 6'5 and 280 lbs but the odd time when i am in the back of a 185 i be kneeling up behind the pilot seat and once above 2k i will sit down and then get the passenger sit between my legs. i have done about 400-500 exits out of a 185. any other aircraft i would not have them sitting on my lap. and i will do this with male and female passengers. but these were done in Ireland and we do not have the same problem as the US in that way. and i would always brief my passengers before hand that they might be sitting on my lap on the way up and if anyone had an issue with that i give them the option of another tandem master. never had any issues and no one ever asked to change

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Seems rather odd and unnecessary.

I've done many hundreds of tandems from 182s (also King Airs, DC-3s, Porters, and Twin Otters with and without benches) and I've never seen an instructor do this. I would want to know why they felt that was required, and school them on other ways of dealing with whatever their issue is. Clearly it is not showing proper respect to their passenger/customer.

As for 182's, I've only ever had and witnessed students ride on the floor between the legs of their instructor with lower laterals connected until time to hook up. With just three jumpers in a 182, often the student can sit back against the rear cabin wall, facing forward.

With two tandems onboard, the first instructor (sitting by the door) may hook up either sitting or kneeling — the student respectively doing the same. Behind the pilot, I usually hook up seated for lack of headroom (I'm 6'2", 200lbs).

It is on occasion necessary for me to have a student either sit on my lap or raise themselves up by pushing off my knees with their hands at hook-up time in order to properly tighten the lower laterals, but this option is only used when needed. Examples being, (a) when there are three tandems in a Porter and you are the one stuck on the back bench, (b) a student is rather heavy set with the student harness hip junctions placed wide and you don't have good leverage to tighten the laterals with them between your legs, and (c) when I have a rather petite student who's hips are much lower than mine when seated and I need to straighten the laterals out to remove the kinks in order to properly tighten them. As soon as the laterals are tightened, and belly-band comfortably adjusted, however, I have the student drop back between my legs and sit back on the floor (or sit in their leg straps hanging from my harness if they don't quite reach the floor.)

Tandem harnesses are awkward enough; no need to make it even more awkward.

If this specific TI is doing this for reasons not related to safety ... is he cold, and using his students as a warm blanket? ... it certainly CAN be downright creepy.

If he is doing this because he likes abusing his students/customers vulnerability and getting off on his position of power and their easy compliance to his instructions ... or just getting off sexually ... well, ick.

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sky4meplease


I don't know it just creeps me out and I feel awkward when my customer finds out they or their daughter or wife will be sitting on some strange guys lap for twenty minutes or even one minute for that matter.



Why is the "dad/husband" your customer and not the passenger herself? I find it interesting that you mention the guy's discomfort but don't mention the woman's discomfort. After all, she is the one doing the lap sitting in your scenario.
I'm not a lady, I'm a skydiver.

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FlyLikeARaven

***
I don't know it just creeps me out and I feel awkward when my customer finds out they or their daughter or wife will be sitting on some strange guys lap for twenty minutes or even one minute for that matter.



Why is the "dad/husband" your customer and not the passenger herself? I find it interesting that you mention the guy's discomfort but don't mention the woman's discomfort. After all, she is the one doing the lap sitting in your scenario.

Why do you assume that it has to be a "dad/husband" why cant it be a mom/wife

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Whether it's creepy or not, it's unnecessary. How many TI's do you have there? Do they all do this? With all passengers? It's possible one leader of your group found that it works for him and the others just followed suit. It can be fixed, be diplomatic. No one likes to be corrected and people get stuck in their ways. Maybe bring in a TI from another DZ to bring a fresh perspective.

If all else fails, you are the DZO aren't you? You pay these people right? The buck stops at you.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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Yes, it is creepy asking students to sit in my lap, so I only sit them in my lap long enough to tighten sides-straps. And I skip that step when I can spread my knees wide enough (straddle benches or the "old mans' seat in a Cessna).

On another point, the only times that I attach side-straps before take-off is if I am cramped or the door has been removed. When sitting beside the pilot in the front of a narrow-bodied Cessna 180, 182 or 185 I can only attach side-hooks before the door closes.

The last time I for without a door was a day of jumping from a Bell 206 Jetranger Helicopter.

I wonder why another poster sits his students against the rear bulkhead. Are they not wearing seat-belts?
Does he want the student hurtling forward during a forced landing - mashing the pilot's face into the instrument panel?
Does he realize that seating jumpers against the rear bulkhead un--balances the airplane?
Does he realize that the baggage compartment is placarded for only 100 pounds?

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Rover

***There is no need to have a student sit on your lap to hook up. Never. On any plane.



Stupid statement - obviously never done a tandem from the slot beside the pilot in a C172 / 182.


Stupid statement?

This may be an issue of semantics but I disagree. I have thousands of jumps from the co-pilot side of a narrow-body 182 and zero of them were with a student in my lap.

I get on my knees and the student sits on top of my thighs when its time to clip up. This, opposed to sitting on my lap, is much less invasive.

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This is my preferred method as well. BUT...i have been in a few 182s that still had the the yoke in it and have found that if I get on my knees the rig will push it. Since this tends to piss of the pilot. If the yoke is still in I'll hook up while seated.

I'm 5'11" 225 lbs and if I have large passenger, then I'm pretty much forced to set them in my lap to hook up and tighten the lowers.

I personally like to sit with back to the console with the student between my legs. I have seen were the instructor will put the Student against the console, and then they both turn around and get on their knees. This would work with the yoke still in, but I don't like setting up this way. I would rather just have then sit on my lap for a couple seconds versus being behind me for the majority of the ride up.

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When there on there knees in front of you, have them lean forward at the waist, hook up the laterals, then push the rig up on your back, then you can tighten the lat's as much as you need. Works great for me from the front or back regardless of the size of the student. Might be worth a try.

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