ti's and dui's

[skypuppy 1]

just reading the post about FAA's medical reforms, and it made me wonder - what are the rules about ti's and dui's. Not being from the US I'm not familiar with FAA medicals TI's had to do there, but I understand that if you have a dui you may lose your medical, and thus your rating? For how long? Can you get it back?

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[riggerrob 598]

Under FAA rules, a dui conviction is a quick way for a pilot to lose is medical. Flight surgeons see excessive alcohol consumption as a form of mental illness and drug addiction.
To regain his/her medical, a drunken pilot must attend counselling (e.g. Alcoholics Anonymous) and prove that they have been sober for "X" number of months. Then they can apply to the FAA to renew their medical.

[normiss 719]

I'm always floored that a legal system can force someone into a religious belief class.
Bollocks I say.

[tsalnukt 1]

Religious belief class????

[mark 107]

tsalnukt

Religious belief class????

http://www.alcoholics-anonymous.org.uk/About-AA/The-12-Steps-of-AA

The AA program is not required, though.

Mark

[gowlerk 2,072]

mark

***Religious belief class????

http://www.alcoholics-anonymous.org.uk/About-AA/The-12-Steps-of-AA

The AA program is not required, though.

Mark


I believe AA requires "belief in a higher power". If you can't accept god as a higher power then maybe you can accept the FAA as a substitute?

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[riggerrob 598]

AA also hosts "atheist" and "agnostic" meetings for drunks who fear organized religion. AA also hosts meetings for drug addicts, "women only" and Alanon for the families of alcoholics.

That whole creed about "a higher power" is about getting alcoholics to think outside they own self-pity or self-loathing. Some of they need to admit that their drinking has harmed others and apologize.

AA helped me sober up 20 years ago. Life has gotten easier since I quit drinking.

[normiss 719]

That's damn funny right there.

[obelixtim 127]

Work is the curse of the drinking man.......

My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

[kawisixer01 0]

One can get a class III with a single DUI on record. I believe there is a wait period. From what I've read, if you have/get a second, forget about it.

[douwanto 22]

Yes FAA is a Higher Power that has helped many get sober. AA is a spiritual program not a religious program

Uncle/GrandPapa Whit
Unico Rodriguez # 245
Muff Brother # 2421

[douwanto 22]

+1

Uncle/GrandPapa Whit
Unico Rodriguez # 245
Muff Brother # 2421

[wolfriverjoe 1,453]

riggerrob

Under FAA rules, a dui conviction is a quick way for a pilot to lose is medical. Flight surgeons see excessive alcohol consumption as a form of mental illness and drug addiction.
To regain his/her medical, a drunken pilot must attend counselling (e.g. Alcoholics Anonymous) and prove that they have been sober for "X" number of months. Then they can apply to the FAA to renew their medical.

Something to keep in mind is that AODA counseling/treatment and Alcoholics Anonymous are two completely different things.

One is a medical/psychiatric procedure. It follows protocols, is administered by professionals, costs significant amounts of money (usually covered by health insurance).

The other is simply a fellowship of men and women who share their experience, strength and hope with one another in order to help each other stay sober. It is not professional, has no rules or protocols (customs and traditions only), and has no dues or fees to attend (basket is passed for donations).
Someone wanting to prove to the FAA that they had stayed sober and had attended AA would have a hard time with that. No attendance is taken, no records are kept.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[SickMonkey 0]

I got mine back after a second DWI. The FAA will tell you exactly what to do. It up you to do it. It can be done with AA. I can vouch for that.

[douwanto 22]

Your statement is correct in discription and false in accuracy about providing proof.
It has been my experience helping others through the process with their medical and tandem ratings with DUIS that FAA has provided a way to earn the medical back and in most cases that includes meetings and treatment as well as letters of reference from others. Ie: sponsors, wives,bosses, counselers. Also they may provide a meeting sheet to be signed by a sponsor or meeting chair. Some have a spot for phone numbers as well. I have even beeN contacted by an AME to verify attendance. There is,a way for pilots and TIS and want to be TIS to get past their addiction and into the pilots seat if they are serious and honest...

Chris

Uncle/GrandPapa Whit
Unico Rodriguez # 245
Muff Brother # 2421

[fencebuster 7]

What he said!

Charlie Gittins, 540-327-2208
AFF-I, Sigma TI, IAD-I
MEI, CFI-I, Senior Rigger
Former DZO, Blue Ridge Skydiving Adventures

[riggerrob 598]

I have attended many AA meetings when the chair said: "All of you who are only here to get your attendance sheets signed will have to wait until the end of the meeting."

[obelixtim 127]

riggerrob

I have attended many AA meetings when the chair said: "All of you who are only here to get your attendance sheets signed will have to wait until the end of the meeting."

Subtle way of saying "you have to wait till the beer light is on"....

My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

[theonlyski 3]

riggerrob

Under FAA rules, a dui conviction is a quick way for a pilot to lose is medical. Flight surgeons see excessive alcohol consumption as a form of mental illness and drug addiction.
To regain his/her medical, a drunken pilot must attend counselling (e.g. Alcoholics Anonymous) and prove that they have been sober for "X" number of months. Then they can apply to the FAA to renew their medical.

I don't believe that you must attend AA, but you will have to meet with and get a letter from a "certified substance abuse specialist" to send up to the FAA. You'll have some hoops to jump thru, but you'd probably get a SI medical for the first one (provided you didn't come up above a certain BAC, because the FAA sees those high numbers as signs of a chronic alcohol abuse issue).

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[Ron 9]

Fact is the USPA should drop the medical requirement. But they will not because the USPA is beholden to the manufacturers.

You don't need a medical to fly/instruct in a light sport plane. Under 1320 pounds, slower than 130MPH, one PAX

You don't need a medical to fly/instruct in a balloon.

You don't need a medical to fly/instruct in a glider.

The FAA does not require a medical to jump as a TI.

But the USPA requires it for tandems.... Yet not for AFF. If DUI was an issue, wouldn't AFFI's ALSO have to get a medical? Nope, the USPA only requires a medical for tandems because UPT demands the USPA do it.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[JohnMitchell 16]

Ron

Nope, the USPA only requires a medical for tandems because UPT demands the USPA do it.

Well hell, we all know the USPA listens to the manufacturers more than the membership.

[riggerrob 598]

The primary reason that TIs need to pass medical exams is because it was part of the original (1983) waiver to allow tandems.
Back in 1983 Strong and Vector applied for a waiver to do tandems with the general public. They wrote tough standards (similar to ultralight instructors) that the FAA was familiar with and could easily approve.

After jumping with a waiver for 25 years, the FAA finally, formally approved tandem jumping. Since the medical standard kept tandem fatality rates low for 25 years, the FAA, USPA and manufacturers saw no reason to "fix something that was not broken."

OTOH the general public expects TIs to work to the same standards as airline pilots.
Canadian TIs still need a note from a doctor (saying they are fit to skydive) but do not have to waste time or dollars on Transport Canada paperwork to acquire a full-fledged aircrew medical.

Another factor is our aging TI workforce. After age 50, we might deteriorate rapidly. Hopefully a doctor will notice warning signs BEFORE a TI lapses into unconsciousness under canopy.

In the end, I can forsee USPA relaxing medical paperwork to "equivalent to FAA Class 3 Medical" but the general public still deserves healthy TIs.

[theonlyski 3]

Ron

But the USPA requires it for tandems.... Yet not for AFF. If DUI was an issue, wouldn't AFFI's ALSO have to get a medical? Nope, the USPA only requires a medical for tandems because UPT demands the USPA do it.

The difference is that the AFF-I is not critical to the student landing, especially since the student lands without the AFF-I there shadowing the toggles.

Think about a CFI who has no medical, they can instruct any time (within their certificates) that the student is a certificated pilot who is qualified to act as PIC and has a medical.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[fencebuster 7]

Chris is spot on. I went through this over the last two years with one of my TIs (and with Chris's help). You just have to power through it.

Charlie Gittins, 540-327-2208
AFF-I, Sigma TI, IAD-I
MEI, CFI-I, Senior Rigger
Former DZO, Blue Ridge Skydiving Adventures

[Bob_Church 7]

riggerrob

AA also hosts "atheist" and "agnostic" meetings for drunks who fear organized religion. AA also hosts meetings for drug addicts, "women only" and Alanon for the families of alcoholics.

That whole creed about "a higher power" is about getting alcoholics to think outside they own self-pity or self-loathing. Some of they need to admit that their drinking has harmed others and apologize.

AA helped me sober up 20 years ago. Life has gotten easier since I quit drinking.

But unfortunately, anyone who still wants to drink will find SOME excuse not to get help.