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maggs

Decreasing Tandem customers

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IMHO business that partner are the ones that are driving the race to the bottom.

You have trained a good amount of your customers to sit around an wait for a deal.

Why would you want to pay another business a large cut of your gross margin, for poaching customers that would have found your business if you hadn't used Groupon?

Sure people use it to pay for that engine that needs a rebuild, or for cash flow, but they are still cutting huge into their margins. You would be better off getting a line of credit with the local bank, than salting the earth partnering with Groupon.
"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

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If every DZ - in a province - refuses Groupon or Slyride, the discounters quit selling skydives in that market. The province - as a whole - loses a few tandem students.
Yes, you lose a few customers off the bottom end, but the advantage is more money in the DZO's pocket for - say - airplane parts.

The bottom rung of customers would never buy at regular retail prices, so you don't lose many. Nor do you lose money wearing out your airplane for nonprofit. Remember that profits pay for fuel pumps, propellers, tires, brakes, pistons and all those other "consumable" airplane parts.

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maggs

Do any DZO's out there that don't do groupon see an annual decrease in tandem numbers last few years?



Talk to every DZO in your market area and make a pledge not to use Groupon. That is the ONLY way you don't lose your ass. Also, advertise THE FUCK OUT OF the fact that you go to full altitude. You have to pitch it that there's an actual value to it.
"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

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I am aware of the downfalls of third party vendors and am still not doing Groupon even when other area DZ's are. My question is aimed more at Tandem skydiving in general. I have a good marketing program with radio, promotions, give away's, and printed media but we are still decreasing steadily for the past 4 seasons.

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Are fellow DZ's experiencing a similar decrease?

My guess is that the other DZ's are shitting where they eat, and unfortunately they are also shitting where you eat too. B|

They are probably taking customers that may have gone to your drop zone due to you marketing campaign and website. These customers were going to jump regardless at one of the local DZ's, but they did their one lifetime jump or one annual jump through a groupon promotion.

I haven't seen a decrease where I work as an instructor, but you have just as many local factors impacting business, as you do overall economy impacts.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

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maggs

I am aware of the downfalls of third party vendors and am still not doing Groupon even when other area DZ's are. My question is aimed more at Tandem skydiving in general. I have a good marketing program with radio, promotions, give away's, and printed media but we are still decreasing steadily for the past 4 seasons.



Haven't seen it in general EXCEPT for when other DZs are doing groupons. Our response was to provide a lower altitude jump at a lower price. We're very clear to the customer that this is a lower altitude (9.5k) jump. What's shitty is that the competition is putting tandems out even lower but telling the customer they went to 12k. Our area did a pretty good job of getting DZOs together against Skyride and then against Groupons so we're not getting hit as bad anymore.

It's hard to get a DZ to give up Groupon and usually doesn't happen until they can't fix the plane anymore.
"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

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Skydivers don't sue, and snitches get stitches, but just maybe the state Consumer Protection agency could figure this fraud out, you know... on their own.
"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

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Yeah, we've tried to figure out how to pursue it but in the end their tandems usually had a good time and are none the wiser. They basically hop and pop their tandems and say, "Awesome, you're a skydiver now!"
"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

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maggs

I am aware of the downfalls of third party vendors and am still not doing Groupon even when other area DZ's are.



Good for you!

Quote

My question is aimed more at Tandem skydiving in general. I have a good marketing program with radio, promotions, giveaways, and printed media but we are still decreasing steadily for the past 4 seasons.



You might be experiencing a slowdown because of what other DZs are doing, but then, you are keeping all the money you earn and not giving it to a third-party.

This might mean that you are able to afford better/safer gear and airplanes compared to the other DZS. And you might be in business after they are gone.

Keep up the good work!

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DJL

Yeah, we've tried to figure out how to pursue it but in the end their tandems usually had a good time and are none the wiser. They basically hop and pop their tandems and say, "Awesome, you're a skydiver now!"



I would think that you have to get the right people interested in the fact that a large volume of state consumers were being short changed something of quantifiable value.

Then you would have to guide them through a way to verify that consumers are being short changed.

It may not even be in the ballpark of something that they give a shit about, unless you tip off someone in that office to the fact that they were personally ripped off.

Probably best to take the high road. I think you will win in the long run by being the DZ with better customer service, and a better atmosphere.
"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

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I'm just learning this stuff myself. We ran some off season Groupons. Thinking that it would only get promoted to people who use the groupon site. Wrong. If you Google skydive in my area, the first thing that pops up is the Groupon deal, or the competitor's Groupon deal. We canceled it, and I think they may have as well for the season. But now people phone and ask when the special is coming back. Even though the deal was only for a short time and is now gone. Customers are now trained to wait for the next deal. I don't think we will be drinking that Kool-Aid again.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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when all the dzs refuse they are cutting their own throats because an outside vender will move in and scoop the business. I have seen it time and time again. I dont like groupon or skyrive but the truth is they are here and there are DZOs who specialize in using them to make lots of money at the expense of the dz who hold out for full price..

Uncle/GrandPapa Whit
Unico Rodriguez # 245
Muff Brother # 2421

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wafoos could care less about full altitude or outside video. those only matter to skydivers. Any more tandem mills are moving to turbines and giving 11 to 12 k and customers cant tell the difference in 6 seconds. doing this with the money they are making in volume vs higher prices. Truth is people just want to say I skydived and all the little things that matter to us as skydivers are lost to them...

Uncle/GrandPapa Whit
Unico Rodriguez # 245
Muff Brother # 2421

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Hi douwanto,

Quote

Truth is people just want to say I skydived



I have far less knowledge than any of you that are posting on this subject.

However, about two months ago I bought my 11 yr old grandson a ride in the local wind tunnel. It was very heavily promoted as 'skydiving.'

I think that for a lot of people, they went 'skydiving' and they got the certificate saying so.

Just my $0.02 on this,

Jerry Baumchen

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Yes Jerry,

The marketeers are diluting our "skydiving" brand.
Next thing you know, marketeers will start selling par-ascending as "parachute rides!"
Shucks!

On a more serious note, please share your grandson's version of his wind tunnel experience .... perhaps on the wind-tunnels forum.

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maggs

I am aware of the downfalls of third party vendors and am still not doing Groupon even when other area DZ's are. My question is aimed more at Tandem skydiving in general. I have a good marketing program with radio, promotions, give away's, and printed media but we are still decreasing steadily for the past 4 seasons.



Sorry, this just now caught my attention. You're not getting new business because your target audience does not listen to radio, doesn't want to carry around printed media and you're not capitalizing on the marketing required for promotions and give-aways. Those methods are considered "dated".
"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

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gowlerk

We canceled it, and I think they may have as well for the season. But now people phone and ask when the special is coming back. Even though the deal was only for a short time and is now gone. Customers are now trained to wait for the next deal. I don't think we will be drinking that Kool-Aid again.



I don't know the economics behind any of this but in my area, there are regular groupons to up to 3 DZs for anywhere from 160 to 180.

My understanding is that Groupon keeps about 50% of that. Can money not be made by giving customers the groupon rate or close to if they ask for it, but in this case not having to split off 50% to Groupon?

I have entertained a few clients by buying them a tandem at the DZ I go to, when doing so, I do not use Groupon but they only charge me the Groupon rate and I get get a jump added to my account as well.

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What Peek said. I have a small custom painting business. During the Biker build off , American Chopper, Jesse James craze there was a custom paint shop on every corner pumping out stenciled crap paint work. We did better work, at a fair price and got stuff done on time. Our reputation grew and the other shops faded away. We are still busy, and haven't done any advertising in over 10 years. I haven't had business cards for the last several years.

Consistantly sending smiling customers out my door is all the advertising I need. It is a business plan that has worked since the beginning of time.

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DJL

***I am aware of the downfalls of third party vendors and am still not doing Groupon even when other area DZ's are. My question is aimed more at Tandem skydiving in general. I have a good marketing program with radio, promotions, give away's, and printed media but we are still decreasing steadily for the past 4 seasons.



Sorry, this just now caught my attention. You're not getting new business because your target audience does not listen to radio, doesn't want to carry around printed media and you're not capitalizing on the marketing required for promotions and give-aways. Those methods are considered "dated".

And to continue so I don't sound like I'm just slamming you. I'd recommend that you set aside a solid chunk of time and learn how to tie into people who have an electronic device pasted to their face (Pssst, they paid hundreds of dollars for that thing, they have money). You should have a comprehensive plan for how social media works together (Website/Facebook/Instagram/etc). Also, when you do discounts or give-aways it should be because you've tied that into a larger audience. If there's a boating show in town (for example) and you have a kiosk and a give-away then you should establish a marketing relationship with the promoters of that event so that your social media is working together. You should be posting videos on their page and hosting their items on your page. This should occur both leading up to and following the event with a few drop-ins at later dates. The point is to reach an audience besides the people who already know about you. This is especially important with tandem customers because it's likely that anyone who has "liked" your page has already done a tandem and you'll likely never see them again.
"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

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They, customers, still have jumped out of an airplane. Isn't that what it is all about?

I have taken customers out on a cloudy day at 6k after they waited all day long for the skies to clear. Rather than sent them home w/ "tandem" blue balls. :)

riggerrob

Agreed: The difference between 11,000 feet and 12,000 feet is insignificant.

However, the worst DZs are willing to sneak tandems out at 4,000 feet on cloudy days ........ so 1/3 the altitudes you are talking about.

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This is great advice. Social media is the here and now. learning to manipulate it will get the results you are not getting from your print adds. The modern consumer reads reviews and looks for the best deals. Most could care less about how safe you are or how high you take them. Reviews Reviews Reviews..... Stay away from yelp though. Have them visit Dropzone.com and your facebook Page before and after their visit and jump. Have them Check in on social media. Offer a $5discount on video to check in. Create a buz. post tandem and fun jump photos and videos every week on your page to drive likes and traffic.

Uncle/GrandPapa Whit
Unico Rodriguez # 245
Muff Brother # 2421

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I agree that people don't care, but I believe that is because they do not know any better. If you educate your customers as to why your prices are higher, then the customers you really want will be the ones that come to your business. The needy and cheap ones will go to the Groupon specials.

When people ask me about skydiving and start talking about a Groupon deal I try to educate them about the difference in the dropzones in the area (the ones that use Groupon and the one that does not), about the difference in video quality from having outside video to better quality cameras (and the difference in cost to the dz and that most that use a handcam charge nearly the same price as the outside video ones), about the difference in the planes that are used type of plane and altitude that they will get with a Groupon deal (and about how the bigger planes allow more people in it so they get to watch other skydivers jump out and having fun), and about the overall facilities at the places. Overall I try to educate people about how almost any business that is giving a discount (any discount, not just through other sites) and giving 40% (or better) of the remaining amount to Groupon, that they are going to have to cut corners somewhere (or they were over-charging to begin with, just so they can offer a "discount") and that you get what you pay for. Ultimately, some care and some don’t. And to me, the ones that care are much better (and generally easier) customers.

I would think if you put good content, in regards to those things, on your website and made sure your seo (search engine optimization) reflects some of it, that you would get more traffic to your website, which (if your website answers enough of their questions and appeals to them) in turn would lead to more customers booking tandems. You could also say something along the lines of how the money that is not given to Groupon allows you to have more money for maintenance and repairs. But you would not want to sound too defensive (with any of it), which would turn varying people away, and, of course, you would want to make sure you are actually doing all the repairs and maintenance (not saying anyone is not doing it, just clarifying to not use it falsely).

I have utilized the same tactic for my business, and it is working pretty good so far. For marketing, I do not do much but have a website (that ranks really well on Google) and a few directory listings. If I did a few more things I am certain that my business would do even better, it's just a matter of getting the right people on my team to handle the work and I am very picky about that ;)

"Ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity"

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