"You shouldn't try to pull the handle"

[peek 20]

Yesterday, me and my tandem student, and another TI and his student, are getting ready to board the plane. I stood in back of my student and had him practice touching the drogue release handle, as I taught him in the training.

The other tandem student says to him, "They told me that you shouldn't try to pull the handle on your first tandem so you can just enjoy the ride more."

(I don't know who "they" was, perhaps someone he had met who had done a tandem before. I'm pretty sure it wasn't anyone at this DZ.)

Huh?!!! WTF? "Shouldn't try?"

Well, my student successfully read the altimeter and pulled the handle, and after we landed I asked him about his friend's advice to not try to pull. He said that no, that was not good advice, that it indeed it was very cool pulling, and when I filled out his logbook, I emphasized the checkmark in the "pulled ripcord" box.

(Yes, Peek is at it again, emphasizing tandem training. It's just that I can't believe some of the things I hear about tandem jumps.)

[normiss 620]

Outstanding.

[skytribe 16]

If that is what you or your dropzone are comfortable teaching that is good. I've worked at DZ that teach 1st jump students to pull and ones that don't teach them until 2nd tandem. I don't mind either way.

That being said, I dislike it when tandem students tell other students what they need to do ? I'm the instructor, I determine what happens on my jump and provide the training necessary. If they have ANY questions - ask me and i'll answer them.

[riggerrob 558]

Agreed!
Some of the advice they get from outsiders is downright STUPID!
For example: skip breakfast.
The only students who vomited on me skipped breakfast.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

Well, you never really know what a student is going to do.

A friend had one who thought the tap on the shoulders to uncross the arms was the pull signal.

The student pulled at about 10k. Oops.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[JohnMitchell 14]

wolfriverjoe

Well, you never really know what a student is going to do.

A friend had one who thought the tap on the shoulders to uncross the arms was the pull signal.

The student pulled at about 10k. Oops.

I have my students steer the canopy down to 1000'. I teach them how to check canopy, find the windsock, and navigate. They love it.

So far, no problems.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

JohnMitchell

***Well, you never really know what a student is going to do.

A friend had one who thought the tap on the shoulders to uncross the arms was the pull signal.

The student pulled at about 10k. Oops.

I have my students steer the canopy down to 1000'. I teach them how to check canopy, find the windsock, and navigate. They love it.

So far, no problems.
Yes, actually instructing them makes for a better experience for all, IMO.

My friend tries very hard to be an instructor, to actually teach the "student". Unfortunately, many people just want to be "passengers".

He didn't berate or yell or anything when the student pulled high. He laughed it off, told the student that she was really going to get her money's worth from the canopy ride and to enjoy the view.

They flew upwind (and cross wind, off the wind line) a good distance to make sure they were well clear of jumprun and flew around for a good long time.
A bit of a chilly ride, but both were just fine. The student was a bit embarrassed, but none of the staff made a big deal of it.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[JohnMitchell 14]

wolfriverjoe

He laughed it off, told the student that she was really going to get her money's worth from the canopy ride and to enjoy the view.

The student was a bit embarrassed, but none of the staff made a big deal of it.

[STiJumper15 0]

I think its cool when the tandems let people who may be interested in the sport try to do things with somebody who is a professional is with them. I know its not related. I did my cat A last Saturday. When I did my tandem a year ago I got to fly the canopy before we landed. It was exactly how I remembered flying when I pulled my own toggles down on my AFF 1 jump. I had more things to do obviously. It helped relive some stress and I had fun flying it.

Soar like a bird? We need airplanes to do that.

[daffes 4]

I have shot just a few tandems for friends, and more than one chose the shot when they were pulling the handle to be the "Facebook shot", I'm sure it was positive for their experience.

[AnalMike 0]

Love this! I always ask, "Do you want to pull?" After all, some could care less. But those that pull either (a) seem to have a greater experience "Hey, I got to pull the chute!" when they blast it on Facebook, or (b) end up coming back to do AFF (or even a second tandem that day). Plus, I love instructing, so it gives me an additional pleasure on top of an already fun skydive. I've gotten the biggest high-fives and hugs from people that want what we should be doing, instructing our students!

Anal Mike

HEE HAW!!!
http://www.droguedonkey.com

[camamel 0]

Since I am both dzo and TE can see both side. Depends on the dz the answer can be different. In our case we do 40 + loads/ day during the weekend with two planes. So if one customer open high for any reason it will turn out to be a problem. We have the students to steak the canopy until 1500 or so but never opening the main. Also I don't think it is a good idea to train a student to pull the release w/o throwing it knowing that if he go aff the it is the opposite he will have to throw it as much as he can. So I think it is a bad habit to start with.

When you think you're good...this is when you become dangerous.

[peek 20]

camamel

Since I am both dzo and TE can see both side. Depends on the dz the answer can be different. In our case we do 40 + loads/ day during the weekend with two planes. So if one customer open high for any reason it will turn out to be a problem. We have the students to steak the canopy until 1500 or so but never opening the main. Also I don't think it is a good idea to train a student to pull the release w/o throwing it knowing that if he go aff the it is the opposite he will have to throw it as much as he can. So I think it is a bad habit to start with.

But don't you think these problems can be eliminated by a little bit of instruction?

[riggerrob 558]

camamel

....... I don't think it is a good idea to train a student to pull the release w/o throwing it knowing that if he go aff the it is the opposite he will have to throw it as much as he can. So I think it is a bad habit to start with.

......................................................................................

I disagree.
The original motive - for teaching students to throw emergency handles was to ensure a full-pull.

I could tell you a scary story about a sissified, girly, limp-wristed student who only pulled his SOS handle half way. He pulled far enough to release his (tangled) main but stopped when he felt resistance. That 15-20 pounds of resistance was the reserve ripcord pins!
Fortunately, Saint Francis Xavier Chevrier was on duty and saved his sorry ass.

The other reason for throwing handles is to reduce risk of electrocution if the student lands in wires.

Later on (e.g. when they buy their first rig) we shape behaviour by teaching licensed jumpers to complete full-pulls, then stuff handles down the front of their jump suits.

[Pablo.Moreno 0]

Quote

I have my students steer the canopy down to 1000'. I teach them how to check canopy, find the windsock, and navigate. They love it.

So far, no problems. Smile

Do the same thing, explain why we stay on the upwind, show them how fast you go with the wind and how slow we fly into the wind.
Also, it helps for energy saving having them do all the canopy flying if you are doing a lot of tandems.

[JohnMitchell 14]

STiJumper15

When I did my tandem a year ago I got to fly the canopy before we landed. It was exactly how I remembered flying when I pulled my own toggles down on my AFF 1 jump. I had more things to do obviously. It helped relive some stress and I had fun flying it.

Thanks for the input. There's nothing better than doing the real thing to build confidence, is there?

I even teach my students how to check canopy when I do tandems. It's interesting, great way to show them, and quite a few go on to AFF.

[brenthutch 383]

99.??% will never make another jump in their lives. If you give them the option of pulling and they fail, there is the chance the will feel they did not do well. Let them fly the canopy by themselves instead.

[JohnMitchell 14]

Interesting take on it. Yes, things happen quickly on the bottom end of the skydive, and I don't like sending the one-time jumper away feeling like they "failed".

[Ron 7]

Quote

f you give them the option of pulling and they fail, there is the chance the will feel they did not do well.

Just tell them they did great in front of their family... They will not know and honestly not care.

If they happen to be aware enough to know they didn't pull.... Like they never made the attempt, just tell them you pulled early because of "X" and they will feel better, "I didn't get to pull because we were far from the landing area, I was JUST going to do it when he pulled!"

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334