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normiss

Pilot medical reform!

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councilman24

A change to second class medical? Since we're carrying passengers for hire. I can see this not being good enough for USPA or the FAA. Not that I want that. Just saying.



Is there a track record of tandem accidents caused by TI medical conditions?
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In Part 105.3, the FAA defines the TI to be 'parachutist in command' and the student to be the 'passenger parachutist'.

In pilot training, if the student pilot is not acting as pilot in command of the aircraft, then the instructor must have a commercial license which requires a 2nd class medical.

It would logically flow that the FAA will someday require TI's to have a 2nd class medical. Given that todays TI's are not licensed by the FAA, they don't care and don't require any medical. Someday they might.
For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board.

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DiverMike



In pilot training, if the student pilot is not acting as pilot in command of the aircraft, then the instructor must have a commercial license which requires a 2nd class medical.



Not true. For one thing, all flight instructors have at least a commercial certificate by default. However, only a third class medical is required for a CFI to give any kind of flight instruction- regardless of whether the student is licensed or not. The FAA does not consider a CFI to be using the privileges of a commercial certificate when giving instruction, therefore no requirement for a second class. If the pilot receiving instruction is qualified and acting as PIC, there is no requirement for the CFI to hold a medical certificate at all.

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Where did you hear that rumour?????

TI medical standards were first written by tandem manufacturers (initially only Strong Enterprises and the Relative Workshop) as they attempted to get a waiver to hang 2 humans under 1 parachute. Manufacturers pitched the whole (tandem) concept by describing TIs as meeting similar standards as commercial airline pilots ... er ultralight instructors.
USPA just continued the tradition of requiring TIs to provide written proof that they were healthy.
After 30-ish years (of requiring medical a for TIs) the fatality rate is tiny and you are unlikely to change tradition by changing medical standards for TIs.
IOW if the existing system works, don't change it.

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Class III medical exams are a joke.
My annual physical from my doctor is easily 10 times as effective in checking my health, and it's free under my insurance.
For me personally, wanting to actually know how my health is, I'll take that over giving a retired doctor $85-$100 for him to shakily scribble his John Hancock on an FAA form.

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normiss

Senate committee approves Pilot's Bill of Rights

How soon after full passage can we see a change in the USPA?
:D:D:D



----In Reply I will quote a post and reply from another discussion:

"The FAA does not require a medical of any kind to act as a Tandem Parachutist in Command; that is solely a requirement generated by USPA."
------------------------------

The part of the statement that says "…that is solely a requirement generated by USPA" is not correct.

A little history:
Many years ago when tandems were done under an exemption from the FAA, the FAA required that the "Tandem Master" hold at least a FAA Class 3 Medical Certificate. Whether this requirement was at the suggestion of the Relative Workshop (now UPT) or Strong Enterprises, or a combination of all parties involved, it was a part of the Exemption and was required by the FAA.

After FAR 105 was changed to allow tandem jumping without the exemption, UPT and Strong Enterprises both required that Tandem Masters certified by them would still need to hold at least a FAA Class 3 Medical even though not now required by the FAA. This was long before USPA ever became involved in giving Tandem Instructor Ratings.

UPT, which has about 80% of the Tandem business, at one time considered giving waivers to their requirement of a FAA Class 3 Medical but, due to problems associated with the lack of credibility of some that were asking for the waiver, will no longer consider giving a waiver to their requirement of holding at least an FAA Class 3 Medical. This has been re-confirmed with Tom Noonan, who is the UPT Tandem Program Director.

In summary:
The original FAA Medical requirement was generated by the FAA and the manufacturers, not USPA.

When the FAA dropped the requirement for the FAA Medical, the manufacturers retained the requirement. This was long before USPA became involved with tandem.

All TI ratings come originally from the manufacturers. To receive a USPA Tandem Instructor Rating you must also receive a manufacturers rating. You cannot receive a rating from the manufacturer unless you have the FAA Medical, they require it and have always required it.

So, to say that the medical requirement is "solely a requirement generated by USPA" is not correct and never has been correct.

Mike Mullins

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normiss

Class III medical exams are a joke.
My annual physical from my doctor is easily 10 times as effective in checking my health, and it's free under my insurance.
For me personally, wanting to actually know how my health is, I'll take that over giving a retired doctor $85-$100 for him to shakily scribble his John Hancock on an FAA form.



The FAA Medical was never intended to be a comprehensive physical. Rather, it is a screening tool to eliminate those that may not be qualified under their guidelines.

What the physical from your physician does not screen for is DUI and criminal history. Some find that important.

Mike Mullins

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normiss

Senate committee approves Pilot's Bill of Rights

How soon after full passage can we see a change in the USPA?
:D:D:D



------------------------------
This change is not exactly the panacea you were hoping for. Here is the language of the bill:

"The bill would exempt pilots with third-class medicals from recurring visits to an aviation medical examiner if they self-certify their fitness to fly, take an online aeromedical course biennially, and visit a doctor at least once every four years. The doctor’s visits will be required to include a checklist of items typically included in a physical or medical exam. Pilots who don’t yet have a medical or have had their medical lapse for more than 10 years also would need a one-time visit to an AME to obtain certification".

So, if you have never had a FAA Medical, you would still need to go get one. If what has prevented you from getting one was a DUI, criminal history, or medical condition, then you are still not going to be able to get a FAA Medical.

If you have an FAA Medical within the last 10 years, then you would need a valid drivers license and a physical from a physician every four years. You would still need to self-certify that you do not have any conditions that would prevent you from holding a FAA Medical. So, if you get a DUI you would still need (just as now) to report that to the FAA. If you have any medical condition that would prevent you from receiving a FAA Medical, then your Medical would be invalid. Likewise for criminal activity.

Mike Mullins

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Rumor?

I was not challanging how the USPA or the manufacturers came to require medical certificates. They do regardless of the FAA and I follow those requirements. Personally I have no issue with them continuing with the requirements.
"You don't get many warnings in this sport before you get damaged"

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Just to re-assure everyone that "my ass is where my sass is," I used to hold a Transport Canada Class 1 commercial pilot medical.
I used to hold an FAA Class 1 medical.
My last couple of medical exams were for a British Columbia Commercial Drivers' License, Class 2 (city bus). That allows me to drive a 60-foot long articulated trolley (electric) bus.

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My last couple of medical exams were for a British Columbia Commercial Drivers' License, Class 2 (city bus). That allows me to drive a 60-foot long articulated trolley (electric) bus.



So what you are saying is the only reason the sidewalks are still safe in the great white north (B.C.) is because the overhead electric lines for the buses, prevents your normal sidewalk driving....

Good info to know. :P
you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

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As I understand Mike, the FAA requires that instructors have received the manufacturers training. Once that requirement is met, there is no requirement for an ongoing relationship with either the manufacturer or a private member organization. In order to receive that initial training, one would likely be required to pass the FAA medical as it's required as part of the training. I'm an Eclipse IE, I do the training, document everything well, give copies to the new instructor, and retain records, so we have proof that the manufacturers training has been accomplished. We maintain no relationship with the manufacturer, somewhat because there is no manufacturer.

We all maintain USPA ratings as well, so are maintaining the medical. But, there's no law indicating that we must do so. I/we could drop the USPA rating, and do tandems all day long with no medical certification at all, and break zero laws.

Straighten me out if you believe me to be mistaken.

As I understand with UPT, the instructor signs a contract with UPT indicating that they will abide by UPTs rules or face civil legal action. Still not law.

Martin Myrtle
Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ

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skydived19006

As I understand Mike, the FAA requires that instructors have received the manufacturers training. Once that requirement is met, there is no requirement for an ongoing relationship with either the manufacturer or a private member organization. In order to receive that initial training, one would likely be required to pass the FAA medical as it's required as part of the training. I'm an Eclipse IE, I do the training, document everything well, give copies to the new instructor, and retain records, so we have proof that the manufacturers training has been accomplished. We maintain no relationship with the manufacturer, somewhat because there is no manufacturer.

We all maintain USPA ratings as well, so are maintaining the medical. But, there's no law indicating that we must do so. I/we could drop the USPA rating, and do tandems all day long with no medical certification at all, and break zero laws.

Straighten me out if you believe me to be mistaken.

As I understand with UPT, the instructor signs a contract with UPT indicating that they will abide by UPTs rules or face civil legal action. Still not law.

Martin Myrtle



A USPA TI could drop the USPA rating and do all the tandems you wish without breaking any laws of the US. However, if you are a USPA Member, you must have a USPA TI Rating and FAA Medical in order to comply with the USPA BSR. Additionally, you could not jump at a USPA GM DZ as all non-student jumpers at a USPA GM DZ must be USPA Members.

Mike Mullins

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michaelmullins

***
A USPA TI could drop the USPA rating and do all the tandems you wish without breaking any laws of the US. However, if you are a USPA Member, you must have a USPA TI Rating and FAA Medical in order to comply with the USPA BSR. Additionally, you could not jump at a USPA GM DZ as all non-student jumpers at a USPA GM DZ must be USPA Members.

Mike Mullins



Good point Mike, we'd need to drop the USPA GM as well in order to not piss in anyone's Cheerios.
Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ

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normiss

No clue which DZ's are and are not [Group Member dropzones]



The USPA web site will list the Group Member dropzones and will usually be fairly accurate. Parachutist magazine also lists them but will lag during change due to the publishing cycle.

I do not know of an easy way to get a list of non-Group Member dropzones. A comparison to the dropzone.com list would work up to a point.

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Quote



A USPA TI could drop the USPA rating and do all the tandems you wish without breaking any laws of the US. However, if you are a USPA Member, you must have a USPA TI Rating and FAA Medical in order to comply with the USPA BSR. Additionally, you could not jump at a USPA GM DZ as all non-student jumpers at a USPA GM DZ must be USPA Members.

Mike Mullins



Which is going back to the USPA being the only one requiring a class three medical to be a TI. Yes, the manufacturers require it to GET the rating, but the USPA requires it to KEEP it. And it is a shame the USPA continues to allow the manufacturers to tell the USPA what to do.

The USPA is/was supposed to be for SKYDIVERS not for the manufacturing industry.

Lets see.
Light Sport Pilot INSTRUCTOR - No FAA medical required. This allows an INSTRUCTOR to fly a plane with a student that is 1320 pounds and goes about 130MPH. NO MEDICAL.

Balloon INSTRUCTOR - No FAA medical is required.

Glider INSTRUCTOR - No FAA medical required.

Once again the USPA shows it cares more about making UPT happy than listening to the members.

If this medical reform passes.... The USPA will still require the medical. And for what reason other than making UPT happy?

The story is to prevent people with DUI's from doing tandems. OK, so make that a rule. Fact is that in my 20+ years jumping I have seen TI's do worse than drink at night. Yet the USPA does nothing to stop that.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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Be careful, you may have the USPA move from a medical requirement that just trips up candidates with DUI's and people with drug convictions, to background checks, piss tests, credit checks, and psych evals.
"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

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