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theonlyski

Night Tandems

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Did I miss something and night tandems are allowed now?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r40-QZx3zUo&sns=fb

Looks like the SIM still says:

2-1-F-9
Quote


All student jumps, including tandems, must be completed between official sunrise and sunset. [NW]



Doesn't that NW mean non waver-able?

Read the description for an extra kick...

Quote

Team Fastrax members, Jay Stokes (TI), Jim Woods, John Hart, Matt Harvey, and Bud Prenatt perform a groups pyrotechnic skydive with Japanese Television star Ayako Imoto at Skydive Perris Valley



Leading by example...
"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

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USPA (quoted above) specifies that the jump must be completed between sunrise and sunset. The sun had set (on the ground) probably by the time they had exited if not sooner.
"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

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They will call it a professional stunt jump, for TV production, not subject to USPA rules. They are probably correct. And it likely was a lot darker than the high ISO HD cameras would make it appear to be.

Did I use comma's properly?
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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Canadian Air Regulations define "sunset" as 30 minutes after the center of the sun (disc) descends below the horizon.
I have legally (CARs) done tandem jumps when we had less sunlight than this video.

Judging by the contrast and surface detail still visible, that tandem jump was done when they still had enough sunlight to avoid obstacles, time the flare, etc. At worst, they touched down at official sunset (CARs).

What is the fuss??????

I am not sure what the original poster is complaining about. What is his political agenda?

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I didn't see a "night" tandem in that video.

I saw one that was pushing towards sunset, but without an actual time stamp, and with the vagueness of the FAA's definition of "night" I think any accusations are simply tilting at windmills.
----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

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Regular night tandem jumps can be done legally by FAA rules, not by USPA bylaws and some manufacturers policies.

1) Be legal to perform a tandem jump in a Stunts Enterprises Eclipse Tandem System;
2) Aircraft, pilot and jumper comply with F.A.R. night time requirements;
3) Find a non USPA DZ or have an airport manager's permission to land inside the fence.

That's why I still having a Eclipse tandem rig, harness and manual somewhere in my junk box.

No Drogue, no JUMP!!

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Why not?
So USPA members, including coachs, instructors and examiners are not allowed to jump in Lodi or SWT anymore? Or at any non USPA DZ or location? Geez, USPA will have to revoke thousands of licenses and ratings, including mine and probably yours too.

FYI:

The UNITED STATES PARACHUTE ASSOCIATION
is a not -for- profit, voluntary membership organization of the participants and supporters of the sport of parachuting. The sport is also referred to as skydiving. USPA has no involvement in the conduct or operations of any skydiving center, parachute center, or drop zone.
USPA, AS A PRIVATE, NON-REGULATORY ORGANIZATION WHICH HAS NO LEGAL AUTHORITY TO REGULATE OR CONTROL INDIVIDUALS OR CORPORATIONS, CANNOT BE HELD LIABLE FOR ANY JUMP OR TRAINING OPERATIONS THAT RESULT IN INJURY OR DEATH TO ANY PARTY. Regardless of any statements made in any USPA publications, USPA has neither been given nor has it assumed any duty to anyone. USPA has no obligation to anyone concerning his or her skydiving activities. All references by USPA to self-regulation refer to each individual person regulating or being responsible for him or herself.

Above all:

B. Compliance with Federal regulations [NW]
1. No skydive may be made in violation of Federal
Aviation Administration (FAA) regulations.

BTW, I neither endorse nor I am promoting any illegal kind or type of skydive. However, ONLY the FAA can control the National Airspace and its usage.

No Drogue, no JUMP!!

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The USPA can and has removed members for violations of it's own rules including BSR violations as they should.

There is no rule or BSR that I know of that states that as a USPA member you must jump at a USPA Group Member DZ, however there is a rule that prohibits USPA members/TI's from doing night tandems.
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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

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neandertal

Please, show me where it says "USPA PROHIBITS members/TI's from doing night tandems ANYWHERE IN THE USA, EVEN IF DONE IN ACCORDANCE TO THE F.A.Rs".



It doesn't. I think many people assume "students" when discussing things like this, so it is confusing. The numbering is convoluted, so I won't specify it by number (edited to add: Hah!, silly me, it is specified in the original post), but a BSR exists that states "All student jumps, including tandems, must be completed between official sunrise and sunset. [NW]" (I have not researched what the tandem manufacturers specify about night tandem jumps with either students or experienced jumpers. Anyone?)

Also, to clarify some other things mentioned upthread, USPA members (whether or not instructors) agree to follow the BSRs, period. It is not specified where they must follow the BSRs, so it is implied that this means anywhere in the world, although from a practical aspect, this is not reasonable to expect. (I'm quite sure that a USPA instructor or two has done tandems in other countries with young people, and have not been questioned.)

USPA Group Membership is not really what requires USPA members to follow the BSRs. It is confusing because the Group Member "pledge" specifies following the BSRs, but members agree to do that anyway.

Clear as mud? Should USPA clarify all this? Perhaps.

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gowlerk

Don't you get it? The "rules" and their enforcement have a component of "prosecutorial discretion". Google it.



I didn't expect that kind of comment, but perhaps I strayed from the thread more than I should have. I was commenting on some of the later questions.

I do agree with you that skydiving (and USPA) rules have a component of "prosecutorial discretion".

I do not know for sure if the jump in question involved a student or was past sunset.

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neandertal



Quote

USPA, AS A PRIVATE, NON-REGULATORY ORGANIZATION WHICH HAS NO LEGAL AUTHORITY TO REGULATE OR CONTROL INDIVIDUALS OR CORPORATIONS, CANNOT BE HELD LIABLE FOR ANY JUMP OR TRAINING OPERATIONS THAT RESULT IN INJURY OR DEATH TO ANY PARTY.

.



Can anyone read the above text (extracted from USPA SIM) and stop spreading this paranoia that USPA will pull your license away if you don't brush your teeth twice a day? Pleeeease??

The rules are very simple.
1 - Follow FAA F.A.Rs at all times (US Air Space).
2 - Follow USPA rules (which requires to follow F.A.Rs) when jumping in a USPA member DZ.


"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin

No Drogue, no JUMP!!

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neandertal

***

Quote

USPA, AS A PRIVATE, NON-REGULATORY ORGANIZATION WHICH HAS NO LEGAL AUTHORITY TO REGULATE OR CONTROL INDIVIDUALS OR CORPORATIONS, CANNOT BE HELD LIABLE FOR ANY JUMP OR TRAINING OPERATIONS THAT RESULT IN INJURY OR DEATH TO ANY PARTY.

.



Can anyone read the above text (extracted from USPA SIM) and stop spreading this paranoia that USPA will pull your license away if you don't brush your teeth twice a day? Pleeeease??

The rules are very simple.
1 - Follow FAA F.A.Rs at all times (US Air Space).
2 - Follow USPA rules (which requires to follow F.A.Rs) when jumping in a USPA member DZ.


"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin

USPA does have the ability to revoke your membership for violations of the rules. There is no limitation stated or implied that the violation must be at a USPA DZ. If you're a member, you agreed to follow the organization rules. Don't like the rules, don't be a member. Simple.

Your quote from the SIM does not negate the ability of the organization to enforce its internal policy and decide when someone should no longer be a member of the group.

Example - 99% of demo jumps are not at USPA DZ's. And yet, break the USPA rules on Demo jumps (bad enough), and USPA can decide that you should no longer be a member.

Now, from what I've seen, it takes a big thing to get to that point... And a non-incident that is also not in violation of the FAR's would be much harder to push to the point of revocation, but that does not mean the group's leadership can't do so... As a private organization, they can do that.

JW
Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

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USPA's power to regulate is mitigated by the fact that there is not a need to belong to it in order to run a skydiving business. This means that if it takes action to discipline a member, that member can simply leave and stop paying dues. It is all about having a balance of power in the relationship. This is what separates the USA (and Canada happily) from the Nanny States that only allow one game in town, with no safety valve for the "Rebels".
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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decompresion

Quote

Night means the time between the end of evening civil twilight and the beginning of morning civil twilight, as published in the Air Almanac, converted to local time.


Source: FAR Part 1 Section 1.1

During civil twilight is still OK by FAA



.................................................................................

Everything after this post was written by "mess deck lawyers."
First time I met a mess-deck lawyer, I hurled my (partially digested) lunch all over the mess table!
Hah!
Hah!

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