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tkhayes

Landing on your butt taking its toll?

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Just curious if the consensus out there is that landing on your butt takes a toll over time.

Or perhaps just tandems in general take their toll?

Also considering a much larger pea gravel pit for tandem landings (huge) but interested if people think that would alter the wear and tear on TM's or other risks in any way, positive or negative?

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Pulling pebbles out of your shoes/pants (more so on no wind days) might get old? otherwise the soft sand on the beaches in Australia rocked (minus the sand in your shoes/pants business) - if less than perfect you could still stick a stand up landing in the sand or if there was no wind and you wanted to sit down it was nice and soft.

I'd vote for sand over pea-gravel but either one is nice, though a smooth flat well kept grass area is just as good really. Of course flairing really helps, just wish I had done that on my last jump B|

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I've always preferred a smooth grass area myself. Especially on those no-wind desert days. Tandems take a toll on more than the back though. I've seen a lot of shoulder problems probably from the high toggle pressures and knee and hip problems from a foot sticking on something when sliding. The old joke is, you can usually tell what kind of jumping a staff member does by what they rub at the end of the day: back=tandem, shoulder=AFF, neck=camera person, butt=pilot!:)

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We have a large pea gravel pit for tandem landings here in Lompoc. It's good for those slide-in landings... not only for the TI's body, but also for the Tandem container and harness.

Wearing out of TI bodies in my experience starts with arms/shoulders. The tail doesn't really get roughed up landing in a pea gravel pit, except when jumping in turbulent conditions and getting dropped.

I say go for it. Only positive results

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tk I cant say the but landings are whats wearing me out. I think moving around in the plane with someone snugly attached at 4 points and flaring the big boys are the real culprits. I noticed a huge difference in my recovery from day to day when I went from mostly stand up landings to butt landings. I was not as sore each morning and my knee's and lower back felt much much better on a consistent basis with the butt landings.

Uncle/GrandPapa Whit
Unico Rodriguez # 245
Muff Brother # 2421

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As a weekend warrior with a desk job, I went through a phase a few years ago in which my tailbone was giving me trouble. I got a new chair at work with a cutout that lets the tailbone hang free and put myself at the front of the plane every load for a couple months so I could hang my tailbone off the front of the bench or bring a homemade "donut" made from foam pool noodles to keep that aluminum straddle bench from pressing on the bone and the problem was resolved.

Shoulders and hips are the bigger wear items in my opinion.

Blues,
Dave
"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

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Quote

Also considering a much larger pea gravel pit for tandem landings (huge) but interested if people think that would alter the wear and tear on TM's or other risks in any way, positive or negative?



In Gimli MB we have a 30 meter pea gravel bowl. The Canadian SarTechs do training jumps there and the government built it. It is wonderful for tandems except that my feet sometimes dig into the gravel and stop me before I can get under the pax.

This thing is so large it's hard for me to find a pic of the whole thing, but here are a couple to give you an idea of the size.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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I've had both shoulders rebuilt (accidents and bone spurs not involving tandems) so I work hard to keep them in shape, but they do get tired. I jumped some Aerodyne A2's a few weekends ago a found the toggles to be the lightest I've seen.

The hardest part for me on each tandem? Picking all that crap up off the ground so it's not dragging as I slog to the trailer for a ride back to the hangar. That's the part that tires me out. [:/]

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Tandems in general take their toll. Each TM at our DZ that's put in the real numbers, has ended up with back or shoulder issues over time.
Last year we changed up some gear and that made a big difference in our TMs body wear and tear.
IMO the larger pea gravel pit for tandems is a great idea. Every little bit helps. I'd much rather shake out some pea gravel after a jump than take the hard ground every time!
Door!.... wait, what are we doin again?

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The owner decided to raise the rent and it got unprofitable to operate. I was overseas when it closed. I think that was in '86 or '87. I stopped by there in '97 and the place hadn't changed much. Some of the original buildings (loft, manifest, and office) were still there and the target, called The Bowl, was overgrown with scrub. There was even a 55 gallon trash drum in the parking lot with a Lakewood Skydiving bumper sticker.

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No
With new sporty tandem main and unless you land on the beach where it is always windy, I think the best landing surfaces is grass. Of course you can perform a stand up landing on grass as well if there is some little wind otherwise I ask my my instructors to perform a sliding landing on their butt. If the instructors doesn't do uncontrol crazy low turns this kind of landing is very easy for both the passager and the instructors. If it take a toll over time is because the instructor is not doing his job properly.
Trying to stand up with a Sigma 340 , like I have here, with no wind will eventually end up with passenger and instructors injuries! Where tandems take toll over time is probably at the beginning on shoulders. But when you learn how to save your energy by using the passager and how to do some exercices it is not a problem anymore.
When you think you're good...this is when you become dangerous.

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As a "retired" DZO and Tandem master, I've long had the opinion (and discussed with Ted Strong) my feelings of the Z-PO/swoop tandem canopies. (Ted indicated that no one else ever voiced this to him). While I was a relative tandem virgin with 1000 (+/-) tandems, I can count on one hand the number of landings that were not standups, and have fingers left over! My tandems, when sent back for recertification, were thought to be almost new, no stains or leg strap damage. When I bought the "new" SET 400, the damage to leg straps went up, injuries to TM's and passengers started to happen. My maintenance costs went up! I told Ted I thought the idea of the faster canopy was no advantage to the passenger or the DZO, and those are who the jump is about & I'd rather have 425's on all tandems! I had tandem masters say "they had too much trouble flaring the 425 or 500"... I asked them "what they'd do if they had to use the reserve"? It is a 425...with only one set of toggles! My answer to them was "more arm exercises would be more beneficial to them and their passengers than a fast canopy", that made them do crash and burn landings. I recently viewed 43's last tandem, the landing was a disgrace! Were I the Cmdr. of the Knights, that individual would under go thorough retraining, and put on a 425, one he could do a "standard" Golden Knight approach to a stand up landing. When did the tandem jump become all about the tandem master? I assure you the over amped passenger would rather have a nice stand up, both for his video and for hi/her butt! I did few by many standards, and still I can say "no one got hurt on my landings"!
Rich Worrall D-6860,

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