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Abedy

How to do a diving exit from a C 182?

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Hi folks,

I had to tell you in another forum that I am forbidden to do tandems for "being mentally unstable" now that I came out as being trans.
Not all DZOs are so unwilling to listen to me, to consider my skills and so I may jump at one DZ but out of a C 182. Spoiled Caravan girl, that I am!
I tried a floating exit last year and... well, being 6'1" didn't make things easier and add the prop blast... we (me and DZO, 10 years of tandems...) sort of just dropped off the strut.
Someone told me a diving exit was easier to perform and I am not afraid of diving, have done so from several planes.

Anyone can explain HOW EXACTLY to do it? A video would be very helpful.

Thanks so much in advance :)
Hugs, Hannah
The sky is not the limit. The ground is.

The Society of Skydiving Ducks

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Abedy

Someone told me a diving exit was easier to perform and I am not afraid of diving, have done so from several planes. Anyone can explain HOW EXACTLY to do it? A video would be very helpful.



I have done mainly diving exits from all aircraft except tailgates.
I am 6 feet 2 inches tall.

Hook up kneeling.
Walk on knees until pretty far forward.
Have student put right foot out while I put right foot out.
Have student turn their body to the right while putting left foot out.
Put my left foot in corner of door frame.
Tell student to give me a thumbs-up (and smile at video person if used.)
"Ready, set, arch".
Dive toward the rear.

I have them practice by putting them in the airplane and doing an exit while pretending I am in back. It allows me to see if they understand turning toward the back while putting the left foot out.

Ok, here is the expected pontification:

My briefing to the student is that their eyes will tell them that they are doing a front-loop because we go so far head-down, but that they should trust their arch and a front-loop is unlikely if we do it right.

I tell them about where the wind is coming from, and that we are "skydiving sideways" in the relative wind for the first few seconds. Having them know this means that they understand the exit and will be less likely to have a bad body position due to being nervous, because they understand what the arch is helping do.

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Peek is correct. Instinct, or big aircraft experience may have you wanting to face to the front on exit.
My Opinion: Don't.
You will risk bashing the student's face on the step. Do what peek says and turn outward while diving down to the rear. "Sideways" like he said.
My suggestion is to jump solo a couple of times and pretend you have a person in front of you. Perfect your "turn and dive" as a solo jumper; then just do the same thing when you have a student hooked up to you.
This is my opinion. I don't have a ton of C-182 exits, but enough to know what doesn't work. Hopefully those tandem instr's who have a LOT of C 182 jumps will chime in here and give you their opinions. Read them all, then pick the advice that works for you.

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Hook up on your knees, if front pair, have the pac put both legs out on the step, then put my left foot on the step(or wheel with break held). If rear passenger, you and pac knee walk towards the front and until the passenger can turn and get both legs out, then do as above...then ready, set, arch arch arch

I like to really throw my arms out over my head and tuck my heels on my butt. This usually keeps the pair from doing a front loop. It will usually go "head down" for a second, but if you hold the position it will correct to belly to earth.

If you do go over and do a loop, just go with it. When you come around, get big and stable, then drouge :)

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I would have the student facing forward in the aircraft, move up to where I can turn around, then rotate them out the door, BOTH feet on the step.

Make sure you protect your handles when you're doing this, it's easy to hook a drogue handle on something if you're not paying attention.

Some TI's like to sit back to the front of the airplane and scoot back, then rotate the students legs outside, but I always ended up seeing the student struggling to bend their legs in that way.
"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
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peek

***Someone told me a diving exit was easier to perform and I am not afraid of diving, have done so from several planes. Anyone can explain HOW EXACTLY to do it? A video would be very helpful.



I have done mainly diving exits from all aircraft except tailgates.
I am 6 feet 2 inches tall.

Hook up kneeling.
Walk on knees until pretty far forward.
Have student put right foot out while I put right foot out.
Have student turn their body to the right while putting left foot out.
Put my left foot in corner of door frame.
Tell student to give me a thumbs-up (and smile at video person if used.)
"Ready, set, arch".
Dive toward the rear.

I have them practice by putting them in the airplane and doing an exit while pretending I am in back. It allows me to see if they understand turning toward the back while putting the left foot out.

Ok, here is the expected pontification:

My briefing to the student is that their eyes will tell them that they are doing a front-loop because we go so far head-down, but that they should trust their arch and a front-loop is unlikely if we do it right.

I tell them about where the wind is coming from, and that we are "skydiving sideways" in the relative wind for the first few seconds. Having them know this means that they understand the exit and will be less likely to have a bad body position due to being nervous, because they understand what the arch is helping do.
I used this same method all the time. It is easier and makes for great exit shots for video and stills. Facing forward always seemed more awkward and the step scares the student.

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Thanks so much to all of you. I now have an idea how to do it and will first of all practise it solo pretending to have a student in front of me.
The sky is not the limit. The ground is.

The Society of Skydiving Ducks

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Yeah at the beginning when I started doing tandem on a Cessna I would dive out and get stable right away (no front flip), then later on I saw how other TI where doing it, doing front flip and then get stable and pull the drogue, is important to be able to do both, but the front flips are a lot more relax than trying to be stable right of the hop. Still do some regulars (No front flips), but with the front flips is a lot easier.

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I agree that the flip is easier! I like to do it as well.

I have seen a lot of TI's that get in the habit of "timing" the drogue throw though(have even caught my doing it). It's something that I try to keep myself from doing, but is an easy habit to fall into.

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There are a variety of ways to exit a 182. Just some I've seen:

- Both sitting back towards front of plane. Can hook student up on lap or get up on knees. Less turning needed than if facing forward, and I found it easier when in a narrow body 182 in particular. Student can dangle feet aft of a step if small, instructor has L foot on step. Watch out for drogue handle vs. right side of door if one aims too far aft. (I had a very nice automatic drogue deployment once, on one of my first such jumps using this method.)

- To me more conventional is facing forward, kneeling. Shuffle forward to the door if coming from the back, student gets legs out one at a time onto step. This assumes a big step. I don't get my legs out at all, just on my R knee and L foot inside door. Left hand can get out to strut if desired.

Can do a dive 45 degrees aft, which many do. With or without a single flip.

We also sometimes dive straight out to the side. Just twist (roll) say 45 degrees right as you push out. Sort of like doing a solo out of an Otter door - straight out but rolling slightly to present chest to wind. Almost never have a flip but one still dives down nearly vertical. A very stable exit for a DZ that says you can't flip because it isn't allowed by the manufacturer, at all, ever.

- Instead of shuffling to the door on knees, one can instead hook up on one's knees, then get the student to sit on one's thighs and put their feet out in front. Uncomfortable but good for bigger students to help get them around the 90 degree corner to get them out the door.

What works does depend somewhat on the configuration of the airplane and space available.

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Not a TI, but interested..

Is this a retractable gear or fixed gear plane?
You have the right to your opinion, and I have the right to tell you how Fu***** stupid it is.
Davelepka - "This isn't an x-box, or a Chevy truck forum"
Whatever you do, don't listen to ChrisD.

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I do similar to pchapman, just a simpler version of the hook-up.
I just sit on the floor, facing aft. The student sits between my knees and I hook them up in that position.
Hook-up is only difficult in older (as old as me), narrow-body Cessna 182s. Then I am forced to snap on side hooks before the door closes.
After the pilot opens the door, I put my left foot on the step and tell the student to swing their feet out. Ideally, they put both their feet on the step.
The smaller the student (and the fewer outside videographers) the less important it is for students to step on the step.
The second option is for the student to simply hang their feet aft of the step.
I push off aggressively. My hands go high, overhead and I tuck my feet up onto my butt.
9 out of 10 exits are stable.
On my good days, I turn 90 degrees right to keep the plane in my hand-cam for four seconds.
Sadly, every tenth student extends their legs too far, forcing us to front loop.

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My dear fellow TIs, thank you so much for your wealth of information. I now have a pretty good idea how I can exit and what to be aware of (especially my drogue) and will keep you informed about how things will progress.

Hugs, Hannah
The sky is not the limit. The ground is.

The Society of Skydiving Ducks

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I have jumped a few different 182 and 172's. They have all had slightly different boxes/platforms over the wheel, so they are all slightly different for the exit.

However what works well for me is:

Sitting on the floor facing the tail. Hook up student on my lap.
Put left foot out onto the wheel / box. Left hand onto the strut (gives a nice stable platform for the handy
Quote

cam to film the climb out). Have the student get booth feet outside the aircraft and hanging aft of the wheel. Now i tuck my right foot under my arse and get up onto my right knee. This puts me and the student further out of the door and allows the student to get into a nice exit position (arch). Then just bring your left arm forward for a nice hanycam shot and role forward into the dive.

I found that by being up on my knee it keeps all my handles and drogue further away from any snag points. The only thing that you must be wary of is the rig brushing on the to of the door.

I found it better to keep the students feet off the wheel as i noticed that they were more likely to end up in a foetal position as there knees are forced up on the exit when their feet are on the wheel.

Hope this helps! ;)

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Everybody here are doing diving exits.
For hookup student sits in TI`s lap.

TI sitting next to the pilot sit facing aft.
TI spot, right hand grab strut, left leg on the step.
Student just puts his legs on the step (difficult with larger students).
TI put other foot on the step sitting in the door frame and launch towards tail.

TI sitting in the back face forward. Pair goes to the door by sliding on the butt. Rotating around right door frame. Exit is the same.

Some TIs sitting in the back choose to sit facing aft (behind pilot), buttslide to the copilot position.

During buttslides there is a greater chance of snagging something, so be carefull. Do a good handle check before exit.

Some TIs arch and go without looping, some go for the loop.

I have ton of videos, but I don`t know when will I have a chance to put it online.
Hope this helps.
dudeist skydiver #42

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mircan


TI spot, right hand grab strut....



Huh?

Was that supposed to say left hand, or are you jumping from something other than a 182 with a right side door?
"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

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Huh huh, I also thought "Them TIs must have loooong arms" just like Dr. Teeth of Electric Mayhem ;)
Thanks for the input, my dear :)
Hugs, Hannah
The sky is not the limit. The ground is.

The Society of Skydiving Ducks

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Well folks,

thanks again to all of you for your tips and I would have loved to tell you how I got them into practice...

Unfortunately, the DZO that only recently told me "I'll let you jump" changed his mind and told me I couldn't do tandems there. The arguments he gave did not convince me. I have the idea that DZOs phoned each other and agreed to "speak with one voice" but that's just what I think. But the domino effect is interesting: The first DZO (of a Ltd) grounded me (because I am "mentally unstable" now) and wherever I showed up after, I was told I couldn't do tandems even though I had been given a heads-up before.

Again: This is annoying as nobody had really talked to me about what it means to be trans to learn that it isn't a "mental disorder", or what "socially transitioning" or "the surgery" and "hormones" really mean (and don't mean) etc. But so be it. They are the powers-to-be and I am just the impertinent man in a dress who wants to jump no matter the grave risks this means to innocent students' lives. (Yes, all three DZOs not only one time slipped and referred to me as 'he', 'man who tosses in stuff' etc and told me they are liberal persons and didn't have anything against "this" but... (yes, all three of them didn't even brought themselves to name it 'being transgender!') and everyone was free to do to their body whatever they liked to - and one even put it: "be it jumping of a cliff, drinking themselves to death or 'something like this'" (yes, this 'this' again, and it's a charming comparison, huh?)

And again, I am too busy living the way it should have been from the beginning. My time is too precious to waste it on petty things like DZOs clinging to strange ideas about trans people.

Of course, I would have liked to do my final tandem jumps in my early 50s as a woman and maybe even managing to do the last 40 jumps to celebrate my 500th tandem... But Carsten was the record chaser, the one to wear numbers as a badge of malehood. Hannah just shrugs and minds her biz that really matters.

I will make up my mind whether to sell my tandem stuff or just wait until the next season any trying again but I do know I'll rather burn my stuff than sell it to any of the TIs who just stood around, learned what happened and didn't even try to help or at least comfort me.

Nuff bitched ;)

Hugs, Hannah :)
The sky is not the limit. The ground is.

The Society of Skydiving Ducks

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I can fully understand the DZOs position. Irrespective of your abilities and your sexuality there are other factors to be considered.
DZOs have a considerable amount of money invested in their businesses and in any business reputation is king. Although there are a lot of liberal minded people out there I would wager a small fortune that the majority of 'clients' out there would feel uncomfortable having a transgender tandem instructor strapped on their backs. This would affect the bottom line.
So I put this to you - how can you bring something positive to the business in your current situation? If you can turn it into a positive I wish you luck. :)
2 wrongs don't make a right - but 3 lefts do.

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At least you are being honest which I value.
As for the "it's up to you to turn it into sth positive" - I won't answer it as it's extremely upsetting.
The sky is not the limit. The ground is.

The Society of Skydiving Ducks

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Obviously Rover is an older person and has some archaic views on such things. Don't let it bother you. Most people these days are not so ignorant. You should find work no problem. The bottom line is your skills as a TI not how you look.

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There may be a lot of people out there that might be uncomfortable to have you strapped to their backs because of looks, its unfortunate you have to go through that. Just keep trying and make sure you let your personality shine through so bright they can even see the outside apperance! Never give up on your dreams and i wish the best of luck to you!

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