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PhreeZone

Letting the student distract you

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This video is starting to make its rounds but its an important one to show that right from the start the skydive is staged to go poorly by telling the student to leave in a poor body position and then letting the skydive get to the point that you are in a drogue out side spin.

http://youtu.be/p5QZEeQAl24?t=1m27s
Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

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Oh my gosh. One of the worst tandemvideos I've ever seen... Forget the camera already and get the main out, or cameraflyer could've gone lower to catch the passenger's eye. That might not have worked in this case granted as I'm not sure the passenger was still 'there' even a little bit, but I've done it a couple times and when you pop back on level they tend to follow you with their head hey presto good bodyposition B|

This just went on for too long, I've never seen a flatspin with drogue out before (and never hope to see one again) B|

ciel bleu,
Saskia

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WOW, that is an impressive display of how not to be a tandem instructor. I really did not think you could possbily end up in a side spin that was started after the drogue was set.Twice he had it under control until he stopped flying it in order to try and correct/punch his student. I personally hardly ever correct a students body position, I just find clean air and fly it.
Kirk
He's dead Jim

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That is one of the Worst Tandem Master Performance i have seen in a long time! >:(and what the hell is he trying to achieve with hitting the student. that is totally unacceptable in my book. >:(
First of all, it seems he intentionally front looped a couple times, that is a NO NO in my Book.:S on the previous video you can already see he has a lazy drogue throw :S.
as for the exit, i think you are asking for trouble with that exit, why not sit down and that way the student is in a way better position for exit. also it can be a lot harder to recover from a situation if you are not wearing the correct clothing, remember dress for success!
ok he manages to get the drogue out eventually, but can be cleary seen on the video that the side connectors are not tight enough. if the guy was concentrating more on flying his own body,instead of hitting and fighting with the passenger this would never have happend. i have lots of videos with the passanger knees down, i make a couple attempts to see if i can hook there legs, if not, just fly your own body, i always remain in control that way. i certainly would not become fixated with it like this guy did.

In my opinion he Tandem master is the PROBLEM and not the student. If it was up to me i would suspend his rating, have a serious talk with him, maybe do a few retrain jumps, and if that was not acceptable to him, i pull his rating completley!

This guy is an accident and statistic waiting to happen if he carries on like this, plus i doubt that the passenger enjoyed his jump and i hope he was not given a copy of the video, that could be bad for buissness. If i was the DZO i would give the passenger another free Jump with video with a proper Tandem Master.



My 2 Cents

Rodger

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I really have a hard time understanding why this video ever made it off of the videographer’s camera. It seems to me that while (IMHO)this is 100% the TI failure to handle the situation correctly, they had time when they got down to “think” about what to do about the video. It would have been very simple to just state sorry my cam corder malfunctioned and did not record the skydive and give them a refund for the video.
Kirk
He's dead Jim

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Some one please download this and send it to the manuf. and USPA.

This asshole shouldn't be a tandem instructor, take his fucking ratings away. Better yet, make him find a new sport. :|B|>:(
"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

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There is a post on FB that states the video was sent in and he lost the ratings and was fired.... but it also says he got the rating back and there is also stories about other firings for unprofessional conduct with pax's.
you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

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This video is at least 2 years old, possibly older. I saw this video on a S&TAs laptop at an east coast DZ. although I'm confident I didn't see the original, I did see a full version of this. They didn't want to share much about this incident other than his ratings were pulled, he was fired and was facing criminal charges. I am not aware of the above results.

There was a fear of this reaching the Internet however, but since it has it would seem appropriate this TI name should be released, arm DZs with enough knowledge of this incident to curb any other potential anxieties this may cause.

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Scary thing is that, USPA gave his rating back.


How can we submit to USPA's authority when they lost our respect by giving Ti the rating back.

The passenger was given a chance to sue the guy and put the guy in jail. But the passenger denied to press charges against the Ti, and went about the way.
Bernie Sanders for President 2016

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Although the TI did a spectacularly poor job, from a broader perspective, one can't just bash the TI but should also question the training or supervision they received.

If one wants to get all fancy, one can say that from a human factors or an integrated system safety point of view, one can't just look at the individual who screwed up, but consider, "How did he get to that point?" Is he a yahoo who just won't listen? Is it his first season as TI? Maybe the training was fine,but I don't know. Is the DZ supervising him at all?

I think it isn't an uncommon issue for newer TI's to need be told that the emphasis has to be on flying your body. Trying to adjust the student's position is fine if one can, but not to the detriment of flying the tandem pair. If it is such a crime to screw up in that way, why do TI's get told that by buddies or on the internet, while they are working as TI's?


The guy in the video actually did bide his time after exit and had a reasonable, stable drogue throw. The rest of the jump would have been fine, if perhaps some annoying chipping from a student in a lousy knees down body position. But he really managed to make an almost trivial issue much worse...

He seems to have gotten a little obsessed with the idea of being allowed to force the student into the proper body position, even if that plan of action wasn't working.

As for his exit, it kind of looks like he was going for one or more tumbles out the door. Or was he really so unaware of how to stay stable that he dearched and cupped with the student on exit? I didn't check out the rest of the video closely, but some other exits on the video show it is common at the DZ to do stable exits, so it isn't about showing every student a few loops on exit.


So while I think he did a crappy job, I'm not sure it required pulling a rating. Maybe, maybe not. One could probably pull a new TI's rating a couple times their first season, if one were really strict on them not ever screwing up.

And if a TI messes up, who is there to supervise them? Is there a senior instructor reviewing tandem videos to make sure the DZ's TI staff are performing up to standard? How is a new TI supposed to know? Sometimes you know quite well as a TI when you didn't perform very well, but especially for new TI's, they can be unaware of how a particular performance may be considered below the desired standard.

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It would have been very simple to just state sorry my cam corder malfunctioned and did not record the skydive and give them a refund for the video.



Do you think the videographer would give up his pay for the jump to spare the TI the "embarrassment" of having the video get out? I doubt it. Perhaps the DZO would make that call, by docking the TI's pay and giving it to the video.

Man, I could see some serious retraining after that jump.

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If that was my dz or I was manager of it, that video wouldn't have left the property for one. The video person would have been paid, they did the job. The dz would most likely eat that cost and the TI would be fired for the unprofessional conduct and not the shitty flying. I would pay the TI to avoid any future legal hassle from fired asshat. The video would kept on file in case he did try any stupid shit... kind of like that one TI who got shit canned and tried to claim they fired him cuz he was gay..... fucking morons like that is why we keep good records, video tapes and security cam footage, proper paper work... all on file.
you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

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stratostar

If that was my dz or I was manager of it, that video wouldn't have left the property for one.



That. I've had I believe 3 cases where I went to the DZO with my video before showing/handing it over to the passenger. Two were because of weather -> crappy video, and one where 'my' tandem opened right in the door. I got paid for all those videos as I did my job, but the customers got rejumps + video and the originals were kept at the DZ. No idea if the TM on that one jump got paid though :) That video however was used in tandem seminars later on.

Sidenote, I still can't believe that video of grandma almost falling out of the harness ever left the DZ, would've claimed equipment malfunction for sure on that one!

ciel bleu,
Saskia

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I still can't believe that video of grandma almost falling out of the harness ever left the DZ, would've claimed equipment malfunction for sure on that one!



You can't fix stupid.... but you sure as hell don't have to hire them!
you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

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stratostar

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I still can't believe that video of grandma almost falling out of the harness ever left the DZ, would've claimed equipment malfunction for sure on that one!



You can't fix stupid.... but you sure as hell don't have to hire them!



Occasionally, videos are released as "retribution", I think. Disgruntled videographer leaves the DZ and all...

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Occasionally, videos are released as "retribution", I think. Disgruntled videographer leaves the DZ and all...



Every video/still I shoot is on memory cards (formerly tapes/film) that belong to the DZ. I land, hand them to an editor, and forget they exist. What they do with them is their business.

I know this isn't the way it's done everywhere, but I don't know why that is. This is how the DZ can protect itself from this sort of thing getting out. Every DZs 'bread and butter' is their tandem/student program, and to leave ownership of that footage up to individual skydivers who are nothing more then wayward 'independent contractors' seems awfully short-sighted.

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davelepka


Every video/still I shoot is on memory cards (formerly tapes/film) that belong to the DZ. I land, hand them to an editor, and forget they exist. What they do with them is their business.



I'd like that. A couple of times a year I get requests for another copy of the video and/or photos, which can be a pain because I'm not at the DZ every day or even every weekend, and usually the customer's in a hurry :S
But we have to edit our own videos, and are responsible for our own storage. Which means I for one have my harddrives full, and others may just recycle their memory card when it's full. No consistency there. I do like editing my own videos, as I try to tailor them to my specific customer as much as I can, for an editor it would have to be more cookie-cutter work (most if not all other vidiots here do that anyway).

ciel bleu,
Saskia

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That, or people have been reporting shit to the higher up's and nothing get's done and the acts continue. Sometimes it might even be major illegal shit done to airplanes or gear and has nothing to do with retribution and every thing to do with safety, like not having a beech 18 prop come apart in flight because some corner cutting dzo put JB weld on it and put in use, then sold the plane to some unknowing person.
you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

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davelepka


I know this isn't the way it's done everywhere, but I don't know why that is. This is how the DZ can protect itself from this sort of thing getting out.



Not saying this to disagree or be a dick, but do you think "grandma" should not have gotten out? As in, the incident should have been brushed under the rug and TI (if you call him that) gets a talking to but carries on?

Ideally the guy is pulled aside and reamed a new asshole, possibly fired, but really how realistic is that?

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do you think "grandma" should not have gotten out? As in, the incident should have been brushed under the rug and TI (if you call him that) gets a talking to but carries on?

Ideally the guy is pulled aside and reamed a new asshole, possibly fired, but really how realistic is that?


As a former DZO: Ideally, that is how it should have been done.

Except for the part where the TI carries on at your place.:S

But video's where "the performance of your DZ is slightly under par" have a nasty habbit of showing up on youtube nowadays, resurfacing at the moment there's another unrelated incident.
And however freakish, exceptional and outlandish said incident was, when that happens and the video 'gets viral on youtube' nobody is interested anymore in hundreds of other video's where your place and its co-workers did an excellent job in showing the customer a good time and returning him safely to his loved ones.

There's always someone around with an axe to grind under the pretext of 'public safety' and the world is full of monday morning coaches. And how smallish all the dicks around you seem to be, running a DZ without stepping on one every now and then? Good luck with that! :)
So letting the footage leave your place is shooting yourself in the foot in the long run. You have to have full ownership / the last say in that in the fine print of your business conditions and exercise that power both prudently and wisely, in order to protect your business.

Of course it is way better to not let granny drop out of the harness or wrestle your passenger all the way through a flat spin.

"Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci
A thousand words...

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normiss

Mostly being 1099 contractors, I would think the videos are the legally owned property of the DZ and not the vidiot's.



Not unless the DZ specifically has a WFH/Work For Hire agreement in place. Every DZ I've worked with, I've encouraged them to put one in place for this very reason.

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