Preparation for TI Rating?

[Fall0ut 3]

Hi,
I want to get my TI rating in Germany in 2014. Most of my previous 370 jumps have been Freefly and Wingsuiting, I only got about 60 belly jumps up to 3 way so far because on my DZ all the kids fly in sit or HD..

Now I would like to ask you experienced guys what you would recommend in terms of TI prep work during my next 130+ jumps so I don't run into problems in the course or on my first tandem jumps. I'm not very tall, 5'7", but I understand it can be done with some "not so huge" students in the beginning.

I asked three TIs on my DZ about their opinion, their answers ranged from "You will be fine, so real prep needed" up to "OMG you're a lightweight/short Freeflier/Wingsuiter, you're gonna f***ing die!!"

What do you think? And what should I focus on during my next belly jumps?

[Rover 9]

630 more jumps - 500 is not enough for a tandem rating

2 wrongs don't make a right - but 3 lefts do.

[tonyhays 86]

What Rover said. I've seen quite a few people with 500 jumps get straight into tandems, trained by a variety of examiners. It's never pretty.

“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”

[ShotterMG 0]

You will be fine. Any monkey can throw a drogue.

[Arvoitus 1]

Define pretty.

Your rights end where my feelings begin.

[tonyhays 86]

Where to begin! Unable to get stable without the drogue. Throwing the drogue on all axis other than belly to earth. Drogue wrapping around various body parts, both the TI's and the pax's. Never ending potato chipping, not being able to hold a heading. Spinning at pull time.

In all of these instances, the TIs had no idea of what was happening. They thought they were doing great, until they saw the video.

IMHO, it's a lack of situational awareness due to inexperience.

“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”

[DougH 270]

I think you should do some combat RW.

You should definitely do some horribly planned Mr. Bills where the shit hits the fan.

Maybe some CRW to round out the training.

That should have you a little more well rounded for strapping a customer on the front that will sometimes try to kill you, and a rig on your back that has a PCIT by design, and a way bigger decision tree for malfunctions.

It wouldn't be a bad idea to pack few hundred tandems to get good knowledge of the gear. Knowledge is power in this area, know how the system works, really know how it works. Your life and your customers life depends on proper operation, especially when things go to shit.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[sarajo 0]

As someone who got their tandem rating with just over the minimum (560 jumps, mostly belly) then spent the last season struggling and everytime someone asked how tandems were going my response was "it's harder than I thought it would be" I'd have to agree that more jumps/experience is better. Perhaps it's the fact that I'm 5'4", 145 lbs or a girl that made it more challenging for me but I feel like more jumps would have been beneficial as well. Either way, best of luck to you and don't get it just because you have the 500 jump minimum - make sure you're confident in your ability and then some!

[irishrigger 31]

I have to disagree a bit with you, just because a person has only 500 jumps, does not mean it will end in Disaster.
I have trained many people who just had over the 500 jump mark. that is the required jump number here in ireland. and all of the people i trained have turned out ok, with the exception of 2.
a lot of this has to do with skill level, here in ireland we mostly were belly flyers, however that trend has changed as many people prefere to do FF and HD and wingsuiting.
Do i think 500 jumps is enough for tandem, yes i do, providing they are mostly belly and relative work jumps.
Me personally, i would not count a wingsuit jump towards getting a tandem rating!
lets take a look at this guy who started the thread. he has 370 jumps and he admits 300 of these were HD or Wingsuit jumps.is this good preparation for tandem? i agree with you, it most certainly is not.
over here in ireland you have to get recommended to start tandem training and have final approval from a CCI. so the potential candidate is known to us as we are a very small group over here.
As a tandem I/E i always have the option to say no to train someone. I have said that a person, who even though he had the requirements to start, i would not train him. i mean this guy had problems landing his own canopy on the DZ most of the time. he could not build a 2 way with someone.

I do believe that a rule change has to come into play to sort his out.

My 2 cents

Rodger

[Fall0ut 3]

Thanks guys for your honest opinions!

I agree with you that my wingsuit jumps are more or less worthless for tandems, at least for the freefall part. That's why I decided that my focus now should be entirely on TI prep to catch up and to be ready. I will not start risking my and the students' lives being unable to get us down safely.

My canopy skills are quite solid I think, I can reliably land within a 5meter/15foot circle on all my jumps under various canopies and conditions.

But the thing is - how do I know that I'm "ready" in terms of freefall experience if hitting the required jump number doesn't mean enough. I won't know for sure until I sign up for the TI course and start jumping with someone strapped to me, isn't that right?

Or could you give me some pointers, what I should be able to achieve during my belly jumps? A certain number of points during 4ways? Catching up to people after a longer delay? Flying in mantis and turning entirely with my legs? And how about some belly tunnel drills?

[irishrigger 31]

you have asked some very good questions, and i will try to answer them. and just to be clear these are only my opinions! it is impossible to say when any person will ever be ready for it, but there is some guidelines that should help you decide

well it is certainly a good start that you have good canopy skills as landing out on a tandem could be a lot more difficult then landing out on your own gear.not saying that you land out on every jump of course. I find that you have to make a decision higher on tandems, and always take the safest option! if it means you land 5 or 6 fields away instead of 1 or 2 so be it.remember tandem opens higher so you will have to calculate the wind drift if any, which of course will affect the spot. i always have a quick look out the door before jump to make sure i am in the correct place. dont just trust the pilot and the GPS.
as for RW skills, i def think that being able to turn a few points and flying your lot, on a 4 way will give you some valued skill. same as flying and docking on bigger formations(8-100). you should be able to fly your slot and be able to dock correctly and without taking a formation out on a regular basis
I also learned some good flying skills shooting Video for AFF especially the 1 on 1 levels, as the student can move all over the shop and have different fall rates, to shoot a good video you have to have skills to fly, that is a good indication in my opinion!
but to me the most important part is to have a good head on your shoulders and use common sense at all times.
I might get slated for this but i like dull boring tandems, i do not take chances with tandems, for me everytime is get out, get stable and then deploy the drogue. i do not believe in Freeflying the tandems or doing head down. once the canopy is open get the passenger safely back to earth.

at the end of the day there is a good reason why we get a tandem candidate to do 10 Training jumps during the tandem course. the evaluator will test and look for certain things on every jump. your examiner will give you the best information if you are ready and should advise you on that.
Learing to do tandems will be a complete new set of skill for you at the end of the day.

remember that these are my opinions! i am sure that some people might agree with me and others will disagree or have other opinions.


I wish you the very best of luck with it.

Rodger

[riggerrob 558]

Rover

630 more jumps - 500 is not enough for a tandem rating

...........................................................................

That depends upon which country you plan to work in.
In North America, the tandem manufacturers say that 500 jumps is the minimum to become a TI.

[riggerrob 558]

Try to earn some sort of coach rating, because "people skills" are the deciding factor in how good a TI you will become.

[Fall0ut 3]

Thanks @irishrigger ! Would belly coaching in the tunnel be a big help as well?

@riggerrob: Will do, being a Static Line Instructor (10 day course plus 2day test) is mandatory for a TI rating in Germany

[riggerrob 558]

Stop worrying about your height.
Some of the best TIs are medium-sized women. The compensate for their height by being better "people persons."
The bes tTIs also exercise - a lot - the maintain overall strength. Flexibility helps, but are going to want to toughen up your entire nosy.
Lifting scrap iron is only a partial solution for TIs. Bulging bicps may make you look pretty, but you need far more muscles to become a good TI.

You would be wiser to start with body-weight exercises like Bar-Stars, TRX Suspension Trainer, Bosa Ball, etc. that work your core muscles (abdomin, spine, obiques, etc.). Flaring some tandem mains is like doing parallel bar dips at full body-weight, so start doing dips, pull-ups, push-ups, lateral cable-pulls, etc.

[Fall0ut 3]

I'm glad I don't have to worry about my physical condition.. I've been racing triathlon comps for the last 13 years, with the training including countless tough hours in the pool and doing BWEs, pullups&stuff

[linebckr83 3]

You'll be surprised how many "small muscles" get worn out doing a day of tandems. Don't be surprised when you are alarmingly sore after a day of tandems despite your current fitness level.

Of course belly skills are necessary for good tandem flying, but honestly your HD time isn't useless. On some of the really difficult passengers I've had straight out of the door, relaxing and "going with the flow" has been more beneficial than just arching hard and hoping it'll settle down soon. That's where your HD exit and flying skill will help you. Best of luck.

"Are you coming to the party?
Oh I'm coming, but I won't be there!"
Flying Hellfish #828
Dudist #52

[propacker 0]

a few additional exercises you can do to get ready to do tandems:
1) have a good friend eat something really disgusting and then throw up in a plastic bag. take the bag along on a jump and after you open your parachute, pour the contents on your arms, jumpsuit and splash some on your face. It's gonna happen in real life!
2) do a 2 way RW dive with a friend and just as you open your parachute - have him hit you in the chin.
3) when you land - practice crashing in and doing front flips - from when your student puts their feet down on landing instead of in front of them.
4) practice smiling alot and repeating yourself over and over and over and over on what to do when you leave the airplane and what it means to arch.
5) occasionally spray AXE body cologne up your nose to get used to the student that takes a bath in it.
6) learn 10 different foreign languages.
But seriously - tandems are fun as long as you pay attention to what's going on. enjoy!

[irishrigger 31]

Yes i believe tunnell time will help with your skill level. it is a great learing tool.
however flying tunnell is not the same as doing tandems.

[irishrigger 31]

a few additional exercises you can do to get ready to do tandems:
1) have a good friend eat something really disgusting and then throw up in a plastic bag. take the bag along on a jump and after you open your parachute, pour the contents on your arms, jumpsuit and splash some on your face. It's gonna happen in real life!
2) do a 2 way RW dive with a friend and just as you open your parachute - have him hit you in the chin.
3) when you land - practice crashing in and doing front flips - from when your student puts their feet down on landing instead of in front of them.
4) practice smiling alot and repeating yourself over and over and over and over on what to do when you leave the airplane and what it means to arch.
5) occasionally spray AXE body cologne up your nose to get used to the student that takes a bath in it.
6) learn 10 different foreign languages.
But seriously - tandems are fun as long as you pay attention to what's going on. enjoy!






Glad you were not my examiner!

[diablopilot 2]

The flying part is easy. Know your EP's, and be an instructor, not a drogue hucker.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[skydiveoc 0]

Have your friends randomly start puking on you and have 15 great answers to the question"

"Do I put my goggles on now?"

[Pablo.Moreno 0]

I started doing tandems at about 535 jumps.

I did the 5 evaluation jumps with the Tandems facilitator and the other 5 with a tandem master that had close to 1000 tandems, he is also the chief instructor.

To be honest the evaluation jumps where easy in comparison of the hell I went through with the next 5 jumps.

On the first one he got me in a spin so bad that I lost time awareness/altitude awareness trying to fix the spin and end up opening at about 3.500 ft (from there I have been trying to be as aware as I can be in all my tandems (I have over 230 tandems now).

On the second he didn't do the spin, but he did the rocking motion, right after we jump off ( I got us belly to earth and stable and tossed the drouge and after 1000 feet even though he was trying to touch his toes every 2 seconds we were not rocking anymore.

On the third he brought his hands out after we exit got the drouge being belly to earth, and he tried again to spin this time we were not moving, I was able to counter all his turns to the point that I could see th strap fully extended by the pression created by both of us going opposite ways ( obviously he would change directions time to time, but we didn't turn anything more than a 90.

On the forth was kind of easy he just turn into a ball the whole jump

on the last one he said: "Ill be a normal; student on this one, also wave before pulling"... he wasn't a normal student he again was rocking and turning and shit, when I wave he grab both my arms and tries to lock them, I force the right arm so he focus on the right arm as I rapidly release the left arm and pull.

After the 5 jumps, he said..." Know I feel confident you are going to be able to take care of almost everything"

I was doing tandems next day and maybe had a few that have taken me for a ride, but nothing a deep breath and flying didn't fix. Also, had two reserve rides with in my 230 tandems, toggle lock and line over Fun times!!!.

I guess the best advice I can tell you that I been told,

- Fly your body, a student shouldn't be able to out fly you.
- Know you EP's study them and do many mental rehearsal.
- build some triceps strength so you are able to land the tandem flaring all the way (have seen many different tandems instructors that don't really finish their flare)
- The most important, mix entrainment and training with your student, the more relax they are the better the skydive is going to go and even thou they might still be afraid they are going to die, they will trust the instructor and have a blast anyway.

[feuergnom 22]

great thread with great answers, laughed a lot cause I had to live through some of the things mentioned...

my vital points would be
• know your gear and know the systems strenghts and limits. also get to know the same stuff about the gear you are not trained to jump with!
• don't be a brand/gear-snob - every tandem-systems has it's strengths, limits and "flaws"
• know the decision-tree(s) by heart!
• get your hands on strongs side-spin-cd/video. you can train how to get in and out of it on solo-skydives

what you do have to learn on a personal level: as a TI you will end up as the workhorse of the DZ. meaning heavy rotations with no time to get a drink or take a leak, sweating and swearing silently, jumping in conditions you wouldn't want to go on non-working/solo skydives like high wind gusty conditions, industrial haze etc.

probably the hardest lesson to learn: know, respect and stand (if need be: fight!) for your limits! it's your and your pax's life that's at stake

if you think you can manage all that: go for it and have fun

The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle

dudeist skydiver # 666

[irishrigger 31]

and one more piece of advise, the easiest part of doing tandems is getting your rating!
you will know what to expect during that time, after you are left loose on the members of the public, you never know what can happen