50% off Tandems = 50% off TI pay?

[SEREJumper 1]

This was brought up in another thread as a possible option to DZO's using discount websites for tandems. Say a regular jump is $200 and through the discount it's $100.

Would you as a TI do the jump for say $15, instead of your normal $30 if it means you are getting more jumps in the day? This may potentially help the DZ with more advertising and bring in full paying or just more traffic in general.

We're not fucking flying airplanes are we, no we're flying a glorified kite with no power and it should be flown like one! - Stratostar

[diablopilot 2]

No. I'm a contractor who's paid to do a job. My going rate has a minimum.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[davelepka 4]

The problem with that idea is that there's nothing in it for the TI. Let's say things to pick up, and you go back to working for full pay, you're still limited to the number of jumps that you as an individual can make. So if the DZ brings in 100 tandems per day, that's neat and all, but you still only get paid for the ones that you actually do, where the DZO gets a piece of all of them.

If the DZO wants that reward, then they can take that risk.

[DougH 270]

That sounds like a bum deal to me, let the DZO shoulder the cost of his race to the bottom marketing strategy!

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[SEREJumper 1]

Say these tandems were only for the slow season or Monday-Friday where there is not a lot of jumping normally.

Possibly instead of $30 a jump, maybe get $20?

It's just a poll, I'm not a DZO, just wondering what opinions were out there and not trying to sway anybody.

We're not fucking flying airplanes are we, no we're flying a glorified kite with no power and it should be flown like one! - Stratostar

[normiss 620]

These 'deals' are in no way good for the long term success of a business.

Don't ever try to sell 102,000 cupcakes if your business can't supply the demand.

[stayhigh 2]

Hollister tried this once no???

Huge Groupon deal, late pay to the staff, customer not getting videos. ect.

Didn't work out well I heard

Bernie Sanders for President 2016

[DougH 270]

Here is what I would be OK with.

They offer a deal that is a package with video, with a lower exit altitude. (Obviously not very workable for large plane operations).

If the customer doesn't upgrade back to a full paying jump tandem instructor shoots the handy-cam for free, but gets full jump fees otherwise. This assumes that the instructor doesn't have to edit.

If the customer upgrades to high altitude the tandem instructor picks back up his full pay.

But half price half pay, I think the DZO is being foolish, and I don't want to share in the Tom Foolery!

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[skydived19006 4]

My thought is that Gropuon and similar might be somewhat workable for some operations, and just bad business for others. If the DZ and staff are generally running at well less than full capacity, it might work to trade a discount for possible future or tag along full price paying customers.

In general, I see it as working more hours for less pay. I asked the last Groupon sales chick if her boss offered her 50% more hours at half her going pay, if she'd think it was such a good deal. Did I mention that this was the last call?

I'm a TI as well as DZO. I wouldn't do it either. Maybe if it was a brand new DZ, using Groupon as a kick start would be reasonable. But, if it's a brand new DZ, there generally isn't enough money laying around to take a loss on a bunch of tandems either!

Martin

Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ

[davelepka 4]

Quote

Maybe if it was a brand new DZ, using Groupon as a kick start would be reasonable. But, if it's a brand new DZ, there generally isn't enough money laying around to take a loss on a bunch of tandems either!

The only way that Groupon makes sense for a DZ is if they are slow on business, and need the revenue to pay an airplane lease/note, or to keep instructors paid so they don't walk out.

Selling tandems for costs still covers the costs. You will 'sell' slots and pay your staff selling tandems for cost, that keep your plane and instructors on the field for when you have full paying customers.

Even then, it needs to be a very limited deal with restrictions on scheduling. If you sold a max of 50 'deals' and only scheduled 10 per weekend, you could limit the 'giveaways' and leave time in your schedule for full paying customers. These guys who leave the deal open, and then sell 100's of them are just committing themselves to a long season with no additional income, and I wish them luck paying their bills while trying to service the last 50 or so Groupon customers.

[SEREJumper 1]

A $99, 9k tandem can also be successful if you are able to upsell them for $30 for a 13k jump, as well as sell them video or stills. Its my experience a lot of people upgrade to double there freefall time for only $30 extra.

We're not fucking flying airplanes are we, no we're flying a glorified kite with no power and it should be flown like one! - Stratostar

[StealthyB 0]

skydived19006

In general, I see it as working more hours for less pay. I asked the last Groupon sales chick if her boss offered her 50% more hours at half her going pay, if she'd think it was such a good deal. Did I mention that this was the last call?
Martin

Very well put!

Is 50% less income equal to 50% less wear and tear on the gear, the aircraft, the operating costs, and the TI ?
because I would rather do half the tandems for twice the pay,...
Regards, B.

[JohnMitchell 14]

diablopilot

No. I'm a contractor who's paid to do a job. My going rate has a minimum.

Absolutely, and it's a foolish DZO who goes that cheap with his tandems. Our DZ discounts tandems by $30 on weekdays to stimulate the M-F business a bit. But half off? That's stupid. And it's not my decision, therefore I wouldn't take the cut in pay.

[loltron 0]

Just like full price, cash dropzones, there are good ways and bad ways to do discounted, presold dropzones.

I've worked in all four kinds of DZs, and the best one for me was the well run discounted presale DZ. They are busy with guaranteed customers. Smart DZOs make up the decreased revenue with upsales and cross sales. T-shirts, altitude, video, gear rental, booking fees, etc. It is hard not to earn more money if you triple the number of people walking thru the door. Sell them shit.

Decreasing pay is the sign of a lazy, greedy and/or stupid DZO. Any TI who would jump for $15 doesn't deserve a dime more.

[scrub 0]

no no no since the advent of the hand cam ti have gotten less an less money for there jobs we are now shooting hand cam an doing tandems for less its bull my friends are out a vid job i dont get to shoot vid an the dzo gets to put more money on the airplane its bull ti should get 60 a jump with hand cam ......... we need a ti union to stop greedy dzo from getting rich off are back pain.. i dont mind hand cam but i want to get paid for it you want to run discount skydives you eat the cost DZO's...........or just keep the outside vid so we keep skydiving alive....... greedy dzos are killing the sport.

He who hesitates shall inherit the earth

[JohnnyMarko 1]

scrub

no no no since the advent of the hand cam ti have gotten less an less money for there jobs we are now shooting hand cam an doing tandems for less its bull my friends are out a vid job i dont get to shoot vid an the dzo gets to put more money on the airplane its bull ti should get 60 a jump with hand cam ......... we need a ti union to stop greedy dzo from getting rich off are back pain.. i dont mind hand cam but i want to get paid for it you want to run discount skydives you eat the cost DZO's...........or just keep the outside vid so we keep skydiving alive....... greedy dzos are killing the sport.

.....wtf

[TomNoonan 1]

Quote

.....wtf

While what scrub wrote is a little cryptic, I think I can help shed light on the perceived issue at hand.

I started skydiving in the late 1990s, so basically started skydiving just before the hand cam (in the US anyways) rose to prominence as a viable/economic solution to the ever rising costs of operating a DZ.

If you time warped back to a DZ in 2001, you would see a part of skydiving that has seen a sharp decline since hand cam came around. The packer who packed to save enough money to buy cameras and get enough experience to fly camera. They usually started as fill ins to turn loads, which eventually evolved into a full time video slot. This full time slot provided a cost effective way to get to 500 jumps and hopefully have enough cash put away to take a course and earn a tandem rating. That process played out across the country, presumably the world, at the time.

When hand cam became both popular and economic, those video slots started to shrink, as less opportunities to fly outside video were available.

Over the years prior to hand cam, there were many dedicated videographers that could make a living on video alone. Today, not so much due to hand cam.

How does that "kill the sport?" Well, basically if the logic is logical....lol, then hand cam has drastically reduced the opportunity of skydivers to work up to a tandem rating in the sport through outside video.

Just my .02 on the subject.

Namaste,
Tom Noonan

www.everest-skydive.com

[skydived19006 4]

TomNoonan

How does that "kill the sport?" Well, basically if the logic is logical....lol, then hand cam has drastically reduced the opportunity of skydivers to work up to a tandem rating in the sport through outside video.

Just my .02 on the subject.

I see your logic Tom, and counter with Coach and Instructor ratings. Start packing at the point you're proficient and competent. Coach rating at 100 jumps, or when you're proficient and competent, IAD or SL Instructor rating at 200 jumps. Those ratings can provide the ability to make jumps and break even. Often can bank enough to cover the slow season fun jumping.

Granted, on an AFF DZ, you're pretty much at the same point for TI and AFFI, so Coach and packer would be the filler.

If we go back up to Scrub's rambling point. There must be an over supply of TIs in the market if the price point has been driven down. Tandem Instructors at my DZ do double their pay when shooting HC. But then in my world, there isn't an over abundance of TIs. That world being a 1 182 weekend operation. We have to grow our own staff.

Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

diablopilot

No. I'm a contractor who's paid to do a job. My going rate has a minimum.

I second that. ADAMANTLY.

[matt3sa 0]

Absolutely not. I mean unless you have some sort of stake or ownership in the DZ. I won't mention the DZ, but I was recently talking to a friend about where he works and this particular DZ frequently gives away free jumps for advertising where the TI's don't get paid. You wouldn't see me working at a place like that.

[Andy9o8 0]

Quote

this particular DZ frequently gives away free jumps for advertising where the TI's don't get paid.

But they get a free jump, right?

Yeah, ok, fuck that. Same with discounting the TI's pay, unless he's getting a cut of all the DZ's earnings, too.

[NSEMN8R 0]

I might do the groupon tandems for half pay, but I'd also want a cut of the money from the ones that paid but never redeemed their groupon.

I'd also want the opportunity to make side deals on handcam video with the ones that didn't order it up front.

[skydived19006 4]

Iago

Here's an idea!

Lets start shooting handcam on AFF!
Yeah! Good idea! We can get paid on extra 20 bucks!

Are quite a few AFF instructors not already wearing cameras?

Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ

[buckwheatzulu 0]

The question regarding the discounting of tandems and TI pay is a tricky one...

Is your Tandem operation a business (for profit) or is it a way for us to share our experience..

Is your TI activity your job, or your hobby..

Let's face it, if managed correctly, the tandem business PAYS for us to have turbine aircraft, air conditioned packing areas, good student training facilities, clean washrooms, etc...

...we could always go back to running out of an un-heated shack, with some gutter gear, on the other side of the airport.

We have evolved....sigh!

Personally, as I do not rely on this income for my livelyhood, I would take a hit on what I am paid to do tandems, but ONLY if I knew this was being passed onto the customer/passenger.. I am an over-paid drouge tossing monkey anyway...

I was able to afford to get into this sport only because the S/L instructors were working for peanuts at the time I started (thanks).

[skydived19006 4]

buckwheatzulu

I was able to afford to get into this sport only because the S/L instructors were working for peanuts at the time I started (thanks).

Most SL instructors are still working for peanuts. If they can earn enough to make fun jumps and break even over the course of a year, then they're doing pretty good.

Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else.

AC DZ