steveorino 7 #51 June 28, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteI know that a lot of skydivers feel handicam is horrible.... The only one's who like handcam are the ones getting paid to do it. DZO's who operate 182's and can keep expenses and retail prices lower because of them like them. Students who can't afford a full video package like them. Everyone who reaps a benefit from more DZ exposure because of the product like them. TI's who haven't seen a raise in this industry for 20 years like them. TI's who are tired of having to put up with shit head 300 jump wonders hammering into them just because they are the only ones who will do video for crap pay and no product standards, like them. Stop crucifying those that have developed the skill, and have approached the activity with safety first and foremost in mind. clap, clap! steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airbigdaddy 0 #52 June 28, 2012 Two quick points: Take them for what they're worth. (To play fair, I've only got about 1,000 tandems under my belt, and I have since retired from doing tandems about a year and a half ago.) 1. To those who mentioned having the student wear a camera as an option: As a T.I., I personally would not want my student bringing along a camera. While it would probably USUALLY end up OK, the last thing I want is my student trying to be Steven-fucking-Spielberg when he or she should be arching and/or keeping their hands on their harness for exit, etc. I've done enough tandems and filmed more than enough of them to know they do stupid shit even when their only job is to arch and keep their hands in until tapped, etc. Do I want some aspiring Tarantino trying to catch a great shot on exit when he should be helping me prevent a sidespin? No thanks. 2. Sure, I think handcam CAN be done safely. But anyone, even someone with thousands of jumps and an assload of tandems under his or her belt who thinks it doesn't take a LOT of practice and attention to detail is only fooling him- or herself. In videos and in person, I've seen talented T.I.s forget to tell the student to put on his or her goggles, not spend nearly as much time double-checking harness fittings or their gear, initiate line twists on deployment trying to get a great opening shot and just, in general, not be as on-the-ball as normal since he or she was fucking around with a camera. So, CAN they be done safely? Sure, I suppose. But I do think it adds a lot to an already busy job, and taken lightly, is much more likely to bite the tandem pair in the ass than the possibility of an EXPERIENCED outside videographer causing a problem. I'm a huge fan of the (at least in the U.S. to my knowledge) requirement that anyone accompanying a tandem pair in freefall have at least 500 jumps. And if that person happens to be a douche, please don't allow him or her to go along with you in freefall. So, can an outside camera person, particularly an inexperienced one (who shouldn't be there in the first place) pose a problem? Sure. But I think the chance of T.I. who hasn't thought things through before bringing along a camera who might be overly distracted causing an issue greatly outweighs the chance of a TALENTED outside videographer doing the same. Just my $.02. Lastly, I echo the comments that while the handcam footage under canopy is amazing (except when the WHOLE canopy ride is included on the edited product, which to me, gets old in a hurry), 99 percent of the freefall handcam footage I've seen is not great. Will it work? Sure. But I don't think an up-the-nose or profile shot with no great background or change of angle is ideal. Not slamming it as an option, but I can't be convinced that the FREEFALL footage from a handcam will ever touch outside video. (Do I shoot outside video? Yep. But It's not my sole source of income or my only skydiving discipline I enjoy, so I really am not slamming it just because I like making money doing it.)-Lambert- "It's better to be looked over than overlooked." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #53 June 29, 2012 Fatality reports don't support that. Videographers and other jumpers flying relative to tandems have caused fatalities, on the other hand I don't think there has been a handycam fatality yet. I won't argue that it doesn't add to a complicated jump, so does outside video, but must of the opponents don't like the product, and that is a totally separate argument."The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Abedy 0 #54 June 29, 2012 Quote Fatality reports don't support that. Videographers and other jumpers flying relative to tandems have caused fatalities, on the other hand I don't think there has been a handycam fatality yet. You are somehow comparing apples with pears. Outside video has been there for a long time, much longer than handcam. Thus, the numbers can't be compared on an "absolute" basis. The SCIL (Small Camera Incident List) shows there have been malfunctions that weren't dealt with correctly due to a camera involved: March, exact date unknown Area/location not disclosed. Tandem instructor with small format hand cam has a malfunction. He cuts away main but does not reach for the reserve handle, apparently anticipating a MARD save. He later explained that he wanted to keep filming the student and the cutaway (He did get great footage). No injury. June 7, 2010 South East area Similar incident to tandem handcam incident posted above. Malfunction of the main (lineover followed by linetwists), TI cuts away but does not go for reserve handle. His left hand does not move in the entire video, and in the video, makes a comment about “getting that on camera.” Skyhook save. Reserve opens with several line twists and still, instructor does not move left hand, using right hand to twist and legs to kick. There's a 3rd incident listed (NorCal), spinning main due to toggle fire and no attempt of TI to clear the toggle - went to reserve straight. But this one's not clear as to if a get-it-on-my-small-camera-habit is to blame.The sky is not the limit. The ground is. The Society of Skydiving Ducks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #55 June 29, 2012 I think that is a symptom of giving tandem ratings to drooling mouth breathers, not a symptom of flying a handy-cam. We also have tandem masters taking first time students head down, leaving harnesses loose, leaving lateral loose so they can fly in funky body positions offset to the student. I don't think that with any of the above examples of tandem instructors behaving badly we can blame it on the tandem equipment. They are the results of moron tandem instructors that don't take each jump as dead serious."The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #56 June 29, 2012 QuoteI think that is a symptom of giving tandem ratings to drooling mouth breathers, not a symptom of flying a handy-cam. Its BOTH. You said you didn't know of an accident caused by the HC and he showed you some. It IS a distraction and it DOES add to the complexity. There is little difference to the added stress of adding a HC to a TI than there is to add a camera to a helmet. BOTH add stress and complexity, BOTH have contributed to accidents, BOTH can be done safely."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Abedy 0 #57 June 29, 2012 Ron already made the point. Just wanted to add that - I hope it won't ever happen - because HC is quite new a phenomenon the likelihood of an accident that goes beyond "didn't pull reserve" or "didn't clear twisted lines but chopped" is going to rise... I hope it won't but I learned that what might happen sooner or later will happen. Not only in skydiving.The sky is not the limit. The ground is. The Society of Skydiving Ducks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 14 #58 June 30, 2012 I was sent a message not long about about a TI that got unstable on exit but wanted to continue to get the handcam video so he never brought the left hand in and ended up accidentally throwing the drogue while drogue side down. This then had the drogue go between his body and his students body and do a partial entanglement with the student. The tandem flew in this for a few seconds and ended up having to fire the reserve past all this at 12k feet. The TI specifically said that he was really wanting to make sure he was getting good video and never thought about bringing the left hand in to help with the situation until he was realizing he was going to need to use the reserve.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
5.samadhi 0 #59 June 30, 2012 ^ thats a great learning story. but people won't listen will they? Because A) more money to be made doing handcam. And B) people naturally think "that wouldn't happen to me I'm not that retarded" You are, that retarded, though. At least some have to be that retarded. I'm not near my 500 jumps to be tandem instructor but when I do I'd gladly take the extra risk of handcam for more money. Thats why you do them anyways so might as well maximize money even if there's more risk to the student and yourself. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #60 June 30, 2012 QuoteI fail to see the logic of competent, experienced skydiving professionals being responsible for the misconceptions of beginners. Quote OK. You're being purposely obtuse. Conversation over.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #61 July 1, 2012 Quote^ thats a great learning story. but people won't listen will they? Because A) more money to be made doing handcam. And B) people naturally think "that wouldn't happen to me I'm not that retarded" You are, that retarded, though. At least some have to be that retarded. I'm not near my 500 jumps to be tandem instructor but when I do I'd gladly take the extra risk of handcam for more money. Thats why you do them anyways so might as well maximize money even if there's more risk to the student and yourself. This is why nuggets like this should be saved and brought back up to prevent people like you from even taking a TI course.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 5.samadhi 0 #62 July 2, 2012 well as long as the risk is manageable why not add profit to your time? You can make more money working that way (its like adding 'options' if you're a building contractor and getting more money). or are you just saying the risk is unmanageable and anybody doing it is reckless? Obviously you would disagree with somebody doing it for money if that is your stance. Don't tell me folks pounding out 30 tandems in a weekend are doing it for the LOVE OF THE SPORT! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites popsjumper 2 #63 July 2, 2012 QuoteI was sent a message not long about about a TI that got unstable on exit but wanted to continue to get the handcam video so he never brought the left hand in . I know of one that never went for the reserve....get the shot and let the RSL do the job.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydived19006 4 #64 July 2, 2012 QuoteQuoteI know that a lot of skydivers feel handicam is horrible.... The only one's who like handcam are the ones getting paid to do it. It's been my experience that the students will generally choose Hand-cam over outside video given the option, especially at a 182 DZ. They get to jump two at a time, they get canopy footage and canopy interview. They get a couple hundred stills, and they get it for $75 at my DZ. As a DZO at an one 182 DZ, I choose it as well. Yes, for the bottom line, but also in the interest of freeing up the airplane for fun jumpers. We can do 16 tandems with video in 8 loads, and the fun jumpers and students can have the other 12 to 16 loads. Or we could do 16 tandems with outside video in 16 loads, and leave 4 to 8 loads for fun jumpers and students. As far as the safety issue goes, I guess that the danger has been born out by all the injuries and fatalities caused as a result of hand cam over the years we've been doing it.Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites popsjumper 2 #65 July 2, 2012 QuoteAs far as the safety issue goes, I guess that the danger has been born out by all the injuries and fatalities caused as a result of hand cam over the years we've been doing it. How many years would that be?My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RIGGER 0 #66 July 2, 2012 Dear fellow skydiver you better think twice before you publish. As a T I/E reading your post you better STAY OUT from being a future Instructor - you thing WRONG !!!! If you want to do big money you better find a different work. If you are ready to add no need risk to your work beyond the risks we already have for money & profit reasons you should not be an Instructor!!! Yes, most of us are working in the sport because we love it, we love doing what we do. I think that outside camera flyer is a better option & the video & stills are far better compeering to the handycan. Cheers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RIGGER 0 #67 July 2, 2012 Well, as I said being a TI doing Camera work in the same time - the camera work is taking away from the TI some of his TI duties. I saw Handycam videos & I'm sorry to say but: 1.No handles check at door. 2.No drouge deployment check. 3.No handles check. 4.No deployment wave off. 5.No main canopy check. *** In case of a HARD deployment the handycam might hit the passnger face. Look how many TI mandatory steps are gone for that- we train the TI's for being PURE TI & not an HYBRID TI. IMO as a UPT/USPA T I/E Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydived19006 4 #68 July 2, 2012 QuoteQuoteAs far as the safety issue goes, I guess that the danger has been born out by all the injuries and fatalities caused as a result of hand cam over the years we've been doing it. How many years would that be? I've been doing hand cam since 2006 personally, and I did not invent the concept. I know that there are many arguments against it, but as with the arguments for handcam, they're generally based on money.Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,384 #69 July 2, 2012 >Then again, it wouldn't take rocket science to build a small parachute in the >contraption that deploys when the grip on the pole is lost... "How'd you break your arm and dislocate your shoulder?" "Premature camera parachute deployment . . . " But perhaps you could add a cutaway. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydived19006 4 #70 July 2, 2012 Quote Well, as I said being a TI doing Camera work in the same time - the camera work is taking away from the TI some of his TI duties. I saw Handycam videos & I'm sorry to say but: 1.No handles check at door. 2.No drouge deployment check. 3.No handles check. 4.No deployment wave off. 5.No main canopy check. *** In case of a HARD deployment the handycam might hit the passnger face. Look how many TI mandatory steps are gone for that- we train the TI's for being PURE TI & not an HYBRID TI. IMO as a UPT/USPA T I/E I'm also a USPA T I/E, though with nowhere near the jump numbers as RIGGER. I only have 2500 tandems, and likely 500 to 1000 with handcam. Of the above list, I will freely admit that I do not do freefall handles checks, never have, with or without hand cam. IMO handle checks are/were important with the student mounted rip cord, my rigs do not have the potential of a floating ripcord, and I have three rip cords. I'll freely admit that I do not do visual drogue checks, I don't want to carry a mirror. I've had a couple of drogues get entangled in the bridle, and believe it or not I could tell that the drogue was not preforming as advertised. Hell, I don't even watch my main open, unless it's progressed to the point that I know I have a problem or potentially have a problem. "All jumpers must weigh less than 200lbs for males, 165lbs for females." I copied the above quote from a dropzone in an adjacent state. They've chosen to set what many of us would consider to be fairly ridiculous weight restrictions. Of course there are generally two sides to any argument, they may argue that we're being irresponsible and unnecessary endangering a female student who's 6' tall, with a powerful build and who weighs 180 lbs. Sometimes, we simply will have to agree to disagree (or not).Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydived19006 4 #71 July 2, 2012 QuoteI was sent a message not long about about a TI that got unstable on exit but wanted to continue to get the handcam video so he never brought the left hand in and ended up accidentally throwing the drogue while drogue side down. This then had the drogue go between his body and his students body and do a partial entanglement with the student. The tandem flew in this for a few seconds and ended up having to fire the reserve past all this at 12k feet. The TI specifically said that he was really wanting to make sure he was getting good video and never thought about bringing the left hand in to help with the situation until he was realizing he was going to need to use the reserve. That to me is a good example of poor priorities. My priority and what I teach and demand of my TIs is that the job of TI is primary. Don't even fucking worry about the camera until you're under a good drogue. Then, forget about it again on deployment until you have a good canopy over your head. I see the videos don on my DZ, so easily enforced. I will grant you that I put my left hand in different location on deployment when I have the handcam on, not so much to get the opening shot, but really just not a good idea to grab risers immediately with that weight. Some may call that compromising safety, I'd call it a simple procedure to keep from getting whacked with the cameras. I'll agree with most opinions here that hand cam can be done safely, it can also cause problems if given the wrong priority.Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 5.samadhi 0 #72 July 2, 2012 Quote Dear fellow skydiver you better think twice before you publish. As a T I/E reading your post you better STAY OUT from being a future Instructor - you thing WRONG !!!! If you want to do big money you better find a different work. If you are ready to add no need risk to your work beyond the risks we already have for money & profit reasons you should not be an Instructor!!! Yes, most of us are working in the sport because we love it, we love doing what we do. I think that outside camera flyer is a better option & the video & stills are far better compeering to the handycan. Cheers you're right (I think at least). Then, why are so many people doing handcam...its not because they love the sport (bullllllllshit) If its so taboo that a person would be threatened to not be able to get a rating because they say they would do it, then why are so many already rated TIs, DZOs, STAs, etc allowing it???? Its MONEY MONEY MONEY. The reason we all work. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Liemberg 0 #73 July 2, 2012 Quote "How'd you break your arm and dislocate your shoulder?" "Premature camera parachute deployment . . . " Just build it so that the parachute only can come out if you let go the pole. (OK - maybe it IS rocket science - but I would start with a grip, if I were to look for a place where to put the little parachute in... If a drogue pull doesn't break my right arm, a discarded pilot chute coming out of the grip on a pole with a GOPRO probably isn't going to break my left arm - letting it go is letting it go, after all ...) Quote But perhaps you could add a cutaway. Cutaway is not necessary. Just arm it in the door. Let go of the grip or throw the GOPRO away and it deploys its own parachute. Build a tracker into it. Then again, mixing these 'experimental handcam extensions' with taking paying passengers for their 'ride of a lifetime' is probably not the smartest thing to do in the current climate... You don't want to end up with camera-and-drogue knotted together and the footage on youtube But who needs a left arm nowadays during a cutaway anyway, with all these wonderful & modern gadgets built onto the tandemrigs. (Just don't jump baglocks... don't jump slammer openings either) "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkymonkeyONE 3 #74 July 15, 2012 Quote.... after all my years of jumping I have finally found something that I can say is really challenging being a smaller female tandem master, and that is the length of my arms and shooting handycam. I am using a Chutingstar GoPro glove. I wish there was a go go gadget extension. Someone please invent one... lol So, have any others of you found this harder and what did you do..? Simple: put the glove on your passenger and make them take their own video. No, I'm not kidding. Chuck Blue, D-12501 AFF/TM/SL-I, PRO, S&TA, etc, etc, etc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 3 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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diablopilot 2 #61 July 1, 2012 Quote^ thats a great learning story. but people won't listen will they? Because A) more money to be made doing handcam. And B) people naturally think "that wouldn't happen to me I'm not that retarded" You are, that retarded, though. At least some have to be that retarded. I'm not near my 500 jumps to be tandem instructor but when I do I'd gladly take the extra risk of handcam for more money. Thats why you do them anyways so might as well maximize money even if there's more risk to the student and yourself. This is why nuggets like this should be saved and brought back up to prevent people like you from even taking a TI course.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
5.samadhi 0 #62 July 2, 2012 well as long as the risk is manageable why not add profit to your time? You can make more money working that way (its like adding 'options' if you're a building contractor and getting more money). or are you just saying the risk is unmanageable and anybody doing it is reckless? Obviously you would disagree with somebody doing it for money if that is your stance. Don't tell me folks pounding out 30 tandems in a weekend are doing it for the LOVE OF THE SPORT! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #63 July 2, 2012 QuoteI was sent a message not long about about a TI that got unstable on exit but wanted to continue to get the handcam video so he never brought the left hand in . I know of one that never went for the reserve....get the shot and let the RSL do the job.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydived19006 4 #64 July 2, 2012 QuoteQuoteI know that a lot of skydivers feel handicam is horrible.... The only one's who like handcam are the ones getting paid to do it. It's been my experience that the students will generally choose Hand-cam over outside video given the option, especially at a 182 DZ. They get to jump two at a time, they get canopy footage and canopy interview. They get a couple hundred stills, and they get it for $75 at my DZ. As a DZO at an one 182 DZ, I choose it as well. Yes, for the bottom line, but also in the interest of freeing up the airplane for fun jumpers. We can do 16 tandems with video in 8 loads, and the fun jumpers and students can have the other 12 to 16 loads. Or we could do 16 tandems with outside video in 16 loads, and leave 4 to 8 loads for fun jumpers and students. As far as the safety issue goes, I guess that the danger has been born out by all the injuries and fatalities caused as a result of hand cam over the years we've been doing it.Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #65 July 2, 2012 QuoteAs far as the safety issue goes, I guess that the danger has been born out by all the injuries and fatalities caused as a result of hand cam over the years we've been doing it. How many years would that be?My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RIGGER 0 #66 July 2, 2012 Dear fellow skydiver you better think twice before you publish. As a T I/E reading your post you better STAY OUT from being a future Instructor - you thing WRONG !!!! If you want to do big money you better find a different work. If you are ready to add no need risk to your work beyond the risks we already have for money & profit reasons you should not be an Instructor!!! Yes, most of us are working in the sport because we love it, we love doing what we do. I think that outside camera flyer is a better option & the video & stills are far better compeering to the handycan. Cheers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RIGGER 0 #67 July 2, 2012 Well, as I said being a TI doing Camera work in the same time - the camera work is taking away from the TI some of his TI duties. I saw Handycam videos & I'm sorry to say but: 1.No handles check at door. 2.No drouge deployment check. 3.No handles check. 4.No deployment wave off. 5.No main canopy check. *** In case of a HARD deployment the handycam might hit the passnger face. Look how many TI mandatory steps are gone for that- we train the TI's for being PURE TI & not an HYBRID TI. IMO as a UPT/USPA T I/E Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydived19006 4 #68 July 2, 2012 QuoteQuoteAs far as the safety issue goes, I guess that the danger has been born out by all the injuries and fatalities caused as a result of hand cam over the years we've been doing it. How many years would that be? I've been doing hand cam since 2006 personally, and I did not invent the concept. I know that there are many arguments against it, but as with the arguments for handcam, they're generally based on money.Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,384 #69 July 2, 2012 >Then again, it wouldn't take rocket science to build a small parachute in the >contraption that deploys when the grip on the pole is lost... "How'd you break your arm and dislocate your shoulder?" "Premature camera parachute deployment . . . " But perhaps you could add a cutaway. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydived19006 4 #70 July 2, 2012 Quote Well, as I said being a TI doing Camera work in the same time - the camera work is taking away from the TI some of his TI duties. I saw Handycam videos & I'm sorry to say but: 1.No handles check at door. 2.No drouge deployment check. 3.No handles check. 4.No deployment wave off. 5.No main canopy check. *** In case of a HARD deployment the handycam might hit the passnger face. Look how many TI mandatory steps are gone for that- we train the TI's for being PURE TI & not an HYBRID TI. IMO as a UPT/USPA T I/E I'm also a USPA T I/E, though with nowhere near the jump numbers as RIGGER. I only have 2500 tandems, and likely 500 to 1000 with handcam. Of the above list, I will freely admit that I do not do freefall handles checks, never have, with or without hand cam. IMO handle checks are/were important with the student mounted rip cord, my rigs do not have the potential of a floating ripcord, and I have three rip cords. I'll freely admit that I do not do visual drogue checks, I don't want to carry a mirror. I've had a couple of drogues get entangled in the bridle, and believe it or not I could tell that the drogue was not preforming as advertised. Hell, I don't even watch my main open, unless it's progressed to the point that I know I have a problem or potentially have a problem. "All jumpers must weigh less than 200lbs for males, 165lbs for females." I copied the above quote from a dropzone in an adjacent state. They've chosen to set what many of us would consider to be fairly ridiculous weight restrictions. Of course there are generally two sides to any argument, they may argue that we're being irresponsible and unnecessary endangering a female student who's 6' tall, with a powerful build and who weighs 180 lbs. Sometimes, we simply will have to agree to disagree (or not).Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydived19006 4 #71 July 2, 2012 QuoteI was sent a message not long about about a TI that got unstable on exit but wanted to continue to get the handcam video so he never brought the left hand in and ended up accidentally throwing the drogue while drogue side down. This then had the drogue go between his body and his students body and do a partial entanglement with the student. The tandem flew in this for a few seconds and ended up having to fire the reserve past all this at 12k feet. The TI specifically said that he was really wanting to make sure he was getting good video and never thought about bringing the left hand in to help with the situation until he was realizing he was going to need to use the reserve. That to me is a good example of poor priorities. My priority and what I teach and demand of my TIs is that the job of TI is primary. Don't even fucking worry about the camera until you're under a good drogue. Then, forget about it again on deployment until you have a good canopy over your head. I see the videos don on my DZ, so easily enforced. I will grant you that I put my left hand in different location on deployment when I have the handcam on, not so much to get the opening shot, but really just not a good idea to grab risers immediately with that weight. Some may call that compromising safety, I'd call it a simple procedure to keep from getting whacked with the cameras. I'll agree with most opinions here that hand cam can be done safely, it can also cause problems if given the wrong priority.Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
5.samadhi 0 #72 July 2, 2012 Quote Dear fellow skydiver you better think twice before you publish. As a T I/E reading your post you better STAY OUT from being a future Instructor - you thing WRONG !!!! If you want to do big money you better find a different work. If you are ready to add no need risk to your work beyond the risks we already have for money & profit reasons you should not be an Instructor!!! Yes, most of us are working in the sport because we love it, we love doing what we do. I think that outside camera flyer is a better option & the video & stills are far better compeering to the handycan. Cheers you're right (I think at least). Then, why are so many people doing handcam...its not because they love the sport (bullllllllshit) If its so taboo that a person would be threatened to not be able to get a rating because they say they would do it, then why are so many already rated TIs, DZOs, STAs, etc allowing it???? Its MONEY MONEY MONEY. The reason we all work. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Liemberg 0 #73 July 2, 2012 Quote "How'd you break your arm and dislocate your shoulder?" "Premature camera parachute deployment . . . " Just build it so that the parachute only can come out if you let go the pole. (OK - maybe it IS rocket science - but I would start with a grip, if I were to look for a place where to put the little parachute in... If a drogue pull doesn't break my right arm, a discarded pilot chute coming out of the grip on a pole with a GOPRO probably isn't going to break my left arm - letting it go is letting it go, after all ...) Quote But perhaps you could add a cutaway. Cutaway is not necessary. Just arm it in the door. Let go of the grip or throw the GOPRO away and it deploys its own parachute. Build a tracker into it. Then again, mixing these 'experimental handcam extensions' with taking paying passengers for their 'ride of a lifetime' is probably not the smartest thing to do in the current climate... You don't want to end up with camera-and-drogue knotted together and the footage on youtube But who needs a left arm nowadays during a cutaway anyway, with all these wonderful & modern gadgets built onto the tandemrigs. (Just don't jump baglocks... don't jump slammer openings either) "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #74 July 15, 2012 Quote.... after all my years of jumping I have finally found something that I can say is really challenging being a smaller female tandem master, and that is the length of my arms and shooting handycam. I am using a Chutingstar GoPro glove. I wish there was a go go gadget extension. Someone please invent one... lol So, have any others of you found this harder and what did you do..? Simple: put the glove on your passenger and make them take their own video. No, I'm not kidding. Chuck Blue, D-12501 AFF/TM/SL-I, PRO, S&TA, etc, etc, etc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
