SpectreDriver 0 #176 May 27, 2012 Perfect timing on this video, too. Right in the middle of Memorial Day weekend, one of my busiest. Sunday's tandems will be arriving in a few hours-- or not. As someone mentioned earlier, I think the exit had a LOT to do with this. By rolling OVER her he basically peeled the harness right off! Nobody's mentioned this TIs name?? I'd like to know. As would other DZOs who get a dozen resumes a year from self-proclaimed SkyGods we don't know from Adam... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TitaniumLegs 8 #177 May 27, 2012 Quote According to Laverne, she was not pushed out - http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/video/7332367-80-year-old-falls-out-of-parachute-harness-after-jump/ In reply to the question what's next on her bucket list... "Well I never have ridden in a race car" Good for her. Lucky for them. (>o|-If you don't believe me, ask me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TitaniumLegs 8 #178 May 27, 2012 QuoteEvery FAA official I have worked with - and there have been many - asked that we follow the rules as written, nothing more, nothing less. Ditto. All the FAA guys I've dealt with have been extremely helpful. Generally nicer people than some airport managers, and even a few DZOs. (>o|-< If you don't believe me, ask me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bclark 0 #179 May 27, 2012 Quote I don`t know why it`s banned, but here is Sendspace link If you were foolish, unlucky, or desperate enough to try to use this link to watch the video during the brief time it was unavailable on youtube (like me), you may have had your web browser hijacked by "searchnu.com/406." Here is a link to a page to help you get your stuff straight again: http://deletemalware.blogspot.ca/2012/04/remove-searchnu-uninstall-guide.html. Sorry to get off topic, but I know at least a few others had this happen to them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #180 May 27, 2012 "Quote... Folks at Arnstadt were planning on chartering a Beech and TIs talked about how to get out the door and folks who have already jumped from one said that a sitting exit is the most sensible one. ..." ..................................................................... The best way to take tandem students out of King Airs is to sit them on a bench similar to .. the King Air in the video. Tell students to cross their arms across their chests, and put their toes on the door sill. The quicker you can get them out the door the better. The worst thing you can do is fumble in the door as long as the TI in the video. Aside: I have done about 2,000 tandems out of King Airs, but will never fly in another King Air in this lifetime. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #181 May 27, 2012 Sorry, but I have only sewn Y-straps onto 20 Strong tandem harnesses and I am not familiar with UPT Y-straps. The Strong Y-strap is sewn to the diagonal back straps inside the back pad. Part of it goes straight down the spine, then it splits below the lower, horizontal back-strap to connect with the leg straps. So there is a direct load path - down the center of the spine - from the shoulder snaps to the leg straps. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #182 May 27, 2012 "Quote... As a sidelight, it puzzles me that as an I-E, I can issue ratings but have no ability to suspend them. USPA ratings can only be suspended (temporary) by an S&TA (rating by appointment) or board member (position by election) but not by an I-E (earned rating)???" ...................................................................... As a Strong Tandem Examiner, all I have to do is write an angry letter to the (Strong) factory, and they will lose their (Strong) TI rating. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #183 May 27, 2012 "Quote... I don't believe FAA involvement would create a backlash on the rest of us. It's pretty well demonstrated that Lodi is a bad apple. The feds - like them or not - seem pretty good about separating unsafe operations from everyone else. ..." ........................................................................ The Workman's Compensation Board of British Columbia, Canada is suing Bill Dause. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #184 May 27, 2012 "Quote... I didn't realize the PVC pipe was an option on Sigma drogues? ...' ........................................................................ PVC pipe was standard on Vector drogues. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #185 May 27, 2012 QuoteSorry, but I have only sewn Y-straps onto 20 Strong tandem harnesses and I am not familiar with UPT Y-straps. The Strong Y-strap is sewn to the diagonal back straps inside the back pad. Part of it goes straight down the spine, then it splits below the lower, horizontal back-strap to connect with the leg straps. So there is a direct load path - down the center of the spine - from the shoulder snaps to the leg straps. The UPT mod is pretty much the same. I was incorrect on that count in my previous post. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AlRedler 0 #186 May 28, 2012 The video is on the ipad version of the Times newspaper in the UK this morning. It is linked to an article about Felix's altitude record attempt rather inappropriately. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ufk22 32 #187 May 28, 2012 Quote"Quote... As a sidelight, it puzzles me that as an I-E, I can issue ratings but have no ability to suspend them. USPA ratings can only be suspended (temporary) by an S&TA (rating by appointment) or board member (position by election) but not by an I-E (earned rating)???" ...................................................................... As a Strong Tandem Examiner, all I have to do is write an angry letter to the (Strong) factory, and they will lose their (Strong) TI rating. From the USPA side of things, shouldn't the person who has the authority to issue the rating also have the ability to suspend it (pending board review) ?This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #188 May 28, 2012 FAA investigates: http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/Tandem_Skydive_Scare_206747-1.html?CMP=OTC-RSS FAA Investigates Tandem Skydiving Scare Email this article |Print this article By Russ Niles, Editor-in-Chief The FAA has paid a visit to a California skydiving company after video of some unplanned excitement vaulted it to Internet stardom earlier this week. It's been more than a year since an 80-year-old grandmother identified only as Laverne took a bucket-list tandem jump with the Parachute Center in Acampo, Calif., that may have got her a little closer to her maker than she bargained for. Laverne is seen having second thoughts in the aircraft door before she is encouraged to join the fun by her tandem partner and the cameraman. Laverne somehow slips out of her harness and makes most of the journey earthward in an undignified position in the grip of her partner. At one point during the freefall the cameraman moves in to help keep hold of Laverne. They landed none the worse for wear and that was the end of the story until the video hit theChive. The video caught the attention of the networks and the Parachute Center has fielded numerous requests for comment with a variation of the statement made to the New York Daily News, which quoted an unnamed employee. "No one got hurt," the employee said. "The equipment worked properly." The FAA decided to check that out and spent part of Saturday interviewing staff and going over records.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #189 May 28, 2012 QuoteQuoteSorry, but I have only sewn Y-straps onto 20 Strong tandem harnesses and I am not familiar with UPT Y-straps. The Strong Y-strap is sewn to the diagonal back straps inside the back pad. Part of it goes straight down the spine, then it splits below the lower, horizontal back-strap to connect with the leg straps. So there is a direct load path - down the center of the spine - from the shoulder snaps to the leg straps. The UPT mod is pretty much the same. I was incorrect on that count in my previous post. Blues, Dave ..................................................................... After many of the student harnesses had been retro-fitted with Y-straps, Strong Ent. admitted that they may have panniced. After too many students complained that Y-straps prevented them from lifting their legs for landing, Strong said "just leave the Y-straps slack." Hint: most of the complaining students looked like they had not done a sit-up in this century! Hah! Hah! UPT took a different tack, waiting longer before introducing their version of a Y-strap, and made their Y-strap slightly better. UPT added some bungee cord from dangling if the TI forgot to tighten it. UPT claims that their bungee cord removes some of the jolt when a student "bottoms out" (yes, I know it is a bad pun) on the Y-strap. In the end, both tandem manufactures admit that Y-straps are redundant. Y-straps will only matter if a TI forgets to tighten all the other straps ... and are cheap insurance compared with the foolishness that started this thread. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wags 0 #190 May 28, 2012 Nobody could say for sure, but I wonder what would have happened if he would have done side spin recovery techniques? I never even saw him put his hands out to attempt an arch on exit. Maybe this was discussed earlier, sorry, I didn’t read the entire thread. I’ve had two tandems that started into side spins, and I went fetal (on our backs) to get control of the student, then pulled them into the arch, and we flipped nicely in to a stable face to earth position, and I deployed the drogue into clean air. Going on your back intentionally in a tandem is something that seems very unnatural, and counterproductive, but in a side spin, the worst thing to do is keep a hard arch as the student further separates from you. The hard arch from the instructor at this time will further add to the propeller effect, and the speed of the spin. This is what killed the people before side spins were studied and solutions were found. This TI dumped his drogue, and was lucky it didn’t snag on anything, that would have made a bad situation, even worse. I am not in any way saying I could have handled this better, but just want to know what others think. The key to good side spin recovery is to act fast, not sure if he could have gone fetal quick enough, but it does help to get control of your student. If you are able to capture their legs, you are golden! Here is a link to a video of one of my side spins. I am sure some will think I did the wrong thing, I am not posting here so I can be flogged, but for the added discussion on the topic. I am sure many out there have seen the side spin training videos, and I was following what they suggest to do. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ET9jfZtcQsU Wags Blue Skies, Wags Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pookieland 0 #191 May 28, 2012 INSANE MAN!!!Stop Touching Me!!! Muff Brother# 4466 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wetrock 0 #192 May 28, 2012 Wags This would not have worked for granny as she was out of her harness before she left the plane. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverek 55 #193 May 28, 2012 Made the front-page headlines in the main Polish newspaper (its online edition)...: http://deser.pl/deser/1,111858,11811435,80_latka_chciala_skoczyc_ze_spadochronem__Prawie_wypadla.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wags 0 #194 May 28, 2012 QuoteWags This would not have worked for granny as she was out of her harness before she left the plane. Agreed, she was sliding out, but just out of the plane they were not separated enough where he couldn’t have captured her. I think he could have gone on to his back, (her now in his burble) and pulled her up, capture her legs, and arch. It would have been some work, but I think it could have been done. Again, going on your back in a tandem seems like a bad position to be in, but it gives you an adavantage. Obviously the best thing would have been to have the harness tight to start with. I have had several students tell me that I have the rig uncomfortably tight just before the jump, but they later say that it didn’t feel tight in free-fall. Wags Blue Skies, Wags Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
robinheid 0 #195 May 29, 2012 Quote Quote when people are already cancelling tandems because of the video, then it was unnecessarily further damaging the sport. ... not to mention Lodi's owner saying "the TI did a good job" in a news interview. Is there any documented case of someone canceling a tandem because of this video? Two separate groups showed up today specifically _because_ of the video; they wanted to see what it really looked like. Both ended up booking, one jumped. The other would have jumped had it not been for weather. It's demonstrable; skydiving interest increases after any incident reported in the news. It may not be the kind of 'marketing' that is good for the sport, but it does spark awareness that often turns to more business. +1 Kinda funny how the whuffos get it but not the skgods. 44 SCR-6933 / SCS-3463 / D-5533 / BASE 44 / CCS-37 / 82d Airborne (Ret.) "The beginning of wisdom is to first call things by their right names." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #196 May 29, 2012 Nice job of recognizing and controlling. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NotASalmon 0 #197 May 30, 2012 Am I the only one who sees tandem exit flips as reckless? What ever happened to a stable exit and quick drogue deployment? Of the 5 or 600 tandems I did back in the day, I never exited in a fetal position. If memory serves, such exits are highly frowned upon by the manufacturers. Sure would like to see a replay of this jump with a stable exit, drogue side up...you know...the way we were all trained...2 cents... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,396 #198 May 30, 2012 >Of the 5 or 600 tandems I did back in the day, I never exited in a fetal position. We used to exit that way out of the King Air, mainly for snag prevention. (That was a very small door for a big tandem to fit out.) It was usually possible to get stable head-to-earth pretty quickly though, akin to a late diving exit on a bigway. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NotASalmon 0 #199 May 30, 2012 Sure, same as a 206 cargo door exit. Student would sit on my lap, all legs outside the door, roll out into hard arch, drogue out quick. It's the fetal roll I don't get. If Houdini were to escape from a tandem harness, five'll get you ten he'd do it in a fetal position. Never had a problem launching out of King Air's. Student squats or sits, my left foot in the door jam, roll out slow and once clear, launch with the left foot, big arch, drogue out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigdad510 1 #200 June 1, 2012 WAGS, Just posted on your youtube. I'll tell you, for as many times as I watch the side-spin videos, having a more "recent" video is even more reassuring that the technique works for getting out of them. Thanks for the post!Brad Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
