Easterpig13 0 #1 July 11, 2011 so how often are you seeing this? it's bad enough when a dz creates bullshit rules and then blatantly violates FAR like this...no medical, and not enough strength to flare the canopy, but she's (yes she) was on the back & the PIC...NICE! I really hope that maybe Marc Procos and Bill Booth read this...I'll be happy to give you guys the pertinent information...as well as the "video" guys name who happens to be a TI, and her husband's name who also is a TI. The attitude that "we'll just do as we please" in this sport is disgusting. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #2 July 11, 2011 where is the pic ?scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #3 July 11, 2011 Paying customer up front? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #4 July 11, 2011 So, what have we here? Yet another anonymous coward with some vague accusations about some impropriety committed by an unknown at an undisclosed location. Stand up like a man and say what you are saying or crawl back under your rock and shut the fuck up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IanHarrop 37 #5 July 11, 2011 Quote So, what have we here? Yet another anonymous coward with some vague accusations about some impropriety committed by an unknown at an undisclosed location. Stand up like a man and say what you are saying or crawl back under your rock and shut the fuck up. +1 Sure makes you wonder why anyone makes anonymous posts bitching about someone, somewhere... Just trying to stir the pot is my guess... I think they're called trolls. "Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,380 #6 July 11, 2011 >no medical, and not enough strength to flare the canopy, but she's (yes she) was >on the back & the PIC...NICE! If it's not a tandem passenger in front I really can't get too upset about it. Two experienced jumpers know what they're getting into. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisL 2 #7 July 11, 2011 Quotewhere is the pic ? Indeed. Wheres the pic?__ My mighty steed Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krip 2 #8 July 11, 2011 Quote Quote where is the pic ? Indeed. Wheres the pic? Hi folks I've been holding my breath for the pic. Really I am trust me. So I gotta type fast. Can we play "guess the general area game". before I pass out before the "pic' that doesn't exist doesn't get heeeer KCR.....One Jump Wonder Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
david3 0 #9 July 11, 2011 Quote Quote Quote where is the pic ? Indeed. Wheres the pic? Hi folks I've been holding my breath for the pic. Really I am trust me. So I gotta type fast. Can we play "guess the general area game". before I pass out before the "pic' that doesn't exist doesn't get heeeer KCR..... PIC / Pilot in command?... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #10 July 11, 2011 I don't see it very often. The last time I heard about it, the "guilty party" was trying to talk me into saying his actions were "okay." I replied, "you should do a few jumps with a Vector Examiner." He waffled a bit more and I replied, "You should do a few jumps with a Vector Examiner." Eventually, the Vector Examiner showed up and gave a lecture about common wear points on Vector Tandems. Then he stretched out one of their tandem rigs and said "See! This is one of the wear points I was talking about." Then the Vector Examiner stretched out their second tandem rig and said "Here is another one of the wear points I was talking about." When he found a common wear point on their third rig, he said:"I ain't jumping this junk!" and went home. The DZO mailed a couple of his rigs to me for repairs. I did so many patches, that I lost count and lost money on that deal. I got them airworthy but sent them back with the warning: "Don't ever darken my door-step with your 13 year old Vector again!" Bottom line, small DZs - back in the hills - can get away with that sort of foolishness - for a few years - but eventually they either hurt someone. OR some senior skydiver (Tandem Examiner or Master Rigger) gives them a reality check. Rob Warner Strong Tandem Examiner CSPA Rigger Examiner Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #11 July 12, 2011 Quote>no medical, and not enough strength to flare the canopy, but she's (yes she) was >on the back & the PIC...NICE! If it's not a tandem passenger in front I really can't get too upset about it. Two experienced jumpers know what they're getting into. Of course it's in violation FAR 105.45 Subpart C Secton (a) Item 1 Para (iv) & (v). But who's to care about an FAR violation.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stayhigh 2 #12 July 12, 2011 I see tandem with no rating all the time. They all gotta do 10 without one before they get a rating.Bernie Sanders for President 2016 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #13 July 12, 2011 Quote "Don't ever darken my door-step with your 13 year old Vector again!" You must be one of them new fangled Sigma Snobs. I hate old tandem gear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DiverMike 5 #14 July 12, 2011 QuoteOf course it's in violation FAR 105.45 Subpart C Secton (a) Item 1 Para (iv) & (v). But who's to care about an FAR violation. That reg is only in violation if the person in front was not a TI. I don't see anything in the regulation that indicates the parachutist in command must be in back. Given the lack of information it cannot be determined if any regs were violated. For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #15 July 12, 2011 Another point, Rob, was that tandem rigs, properly managed, are money makers. But just as you should with airplanes, every time you take a tandem rig up, you should sock $10-$15 away for maintenance and eventual replacement. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #16 July 12, 2011 QuoteI see tandem with no rating all the time. They all gotta do 10 without one before they get a rating. If the annon's post is not this scenario, then your are mixing apples in a discussion about limes. In course jumps are covered by FAR 105 in the US, those ten jumps are in course jumps. Matt UPT and USPA T-I/EAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,380 #17 July 12, 2011 >Of course it's in violation FAR 105.45 Subpart C Secton (a) Item 1 Para (iv) & (v). >But who's to care about an FAR violation. Yes, it is. And about four months ago I saw a jump in violation of FAR 105.17 Subpart B item 3. And last year I saw a jump in violation of FAR 105.19 Subpart A. I bet you did, too. But in most cases I don't get too upset about it. I bet you don't, either. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #18 July 12, 2011 Hah! Hah! John, Hard to call me a "Sigma snob" when I only have one jump on a Sigma .. and that was without a student strapped on front. Meanwhile, I got certified to jump Tandem Vector 1 back during the mid-1980s. During the mid 1990s, I got certified to jump Racer Tandem. ... and somewhere along the the way I earned a Strong Examiner rating. I have no objections to old Vector Tandems, just "ratty" old Vector Tandems - with more patches than I can count! I also hate ratty, old Dual Hawks ... as much as I hate faded, frayed and filthy Racer Tandems. I was glad when (mid 1990s) Strong introduced 8-year-checks, because by then a lot of California-based Dual Hawks were looking faded, frayed and filthy. After eight years - in the California desert - they were due for a factory overhaul. The public is paying top dollar for tandem jumps and they deserve properly-maintained parachutes. Remember that when RWS introduced (2001?) the Sigma, they said that they would stock spare parts for Vector Tandems for ten more years. We are nearing the end of that decade. Anyone who is still operating Vector Tandems is either jumping ratty gear, or they are not making enough jumps, to wear them out. As an old boss once told me: "If you have to send in a SET400 for an 8-year inspection, you are in the wrong business." IOW If you cannot make more than 1,000 jumps on a tandem main - over an 8 year service life - you are not doing enough jumps to pay off the investment in your equipment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #19 July 12, 2011 QuoteQuote... That reg is only in violation if the person in front was not a TI. .. .................................................................. I disagree. Unless the skydiver wearing the instructor's harness is a certified TI (on that system) or jumping under the supervision of a Tandem Examiner, he is violating a law. Tandem rigs are far too expensive and far too complicated to be used as TOYS. Tandem rigs are TOOLs and cost "x" number of dollars every time they leave the ground. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #20 July 12, 2011 Quote The public is paying top dollar for tandem jumps and they deserve properly-maintained parachutes. Amen. Also have to say the Vector Tandem was a great rig in it's day (along with my old Wonderhog), but the Sigma is an improvement in every way. I won't miss the Vector a bit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hallux 0 #21 July 12, 2011 people freak out when they see a tandem rig being used as a skydiving rig. Why is this? why have we made it into some kind of big deal? Its not a nuclear device....its a skydiving rig! If its being used or supervised by someone who is properly experienced or trained, The DZO feels comfortable with it, and there is no student involved then who cares? and how is that illegal? what is your take on this scenario: If a tandem makes a jump out of a friends plane with two experienced skydivers using a tandem rig and one of the skydivers is an experienced licensed instructor and its not a commercial operation then where is the illegal in that? A tandem rig is someones personal property and at that point is just another parachute system. No commercial student activity should equal no regs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #22 July 12, 2011 QuoteA tandem rig is someones personal property and at that point is just another parachute system. No commercial student activity should equal no regs. I don't think anyone is concerned about what Joe Blow does with his tandem rig in his own backyard, or even at a DZ with other experienced jumpers. The problem is if the rig is being jumped with paying customers, customers who are expecting trained, professional instructors but are getting someones girlfriend who was told 'would be fine'. The question as to who was the passenger, and how they came to be the passenger has been asked serveral times, with no reply thus far. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #23 July 13, 2011 QuoteA tandem rig is someones personal property and at that point is just another parachute system. All of the planes we jump out of are someone’s personal property and there are stacks of regs that must be followed. The same holds true for tandem parachute systems. You may not agree but that’s the way it is. Google Part 105.45 SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DiverMike 5 #24 July 13, 2011 QuoteUnless the skydiver wearing the instructor's harness is a certified TI (on that system) or jumping under the supervision of a Tandem Examiner, he is violating a law. I am wrong - you are right. I guess "105.45 A 2 ii) Uses the harness position prescribed by the manufacturer of the tandem parachute equipment." dictates the TI must be in back. For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
feuergnom 22 #25 July 13, 2011 Quotepeople freak out because it killed people - go and check the list of tandemfatalitiesThe universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle dudeist skydiver # 666 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
