ozzy13 0 #1 January 13, 2011 I'm going to try to keep this short. I applied for a class three medical last October. I have Crones disease and put it on my app. This is where the trouble began. Original FAA doctor gave me a medical then when my treating doctor faxed over my diagnosis he ended up faxing my whole chart over. On my chart it indicated that I am allergic to a medication that is a red flag drug to the FAA and my medical was revoked. Mind you that i only took this drug once when i was 17. From there I had to get a psychological examination. The Doctor gave me a clean bill of heath and stated his recommendation is to clear me for the class three medical. The FAA turn and stated it was inconclusive and requested a 5 panel forensic drug test and a forensic urine ethyl glucuronide test that had to be done within 48 hours of receiving their letter. I complied went to my doc and got the prescription. It did not say what drugs to test for so lab did not do the 5 panel test. My doctor requested the drugs they wanted and FAA responded back to them via fax on the 10th of Jan. On the 11th I took the test. On the 12th FAA is saying it is inconclusive and now they want a forensic 90 day 5 panel hair test. I have passed all test so far and my insurance does not cover the hair test. The lab will not take the sample because the techs are not qualified and either is my doctor. I have 3 more days to take this test and don't have the money nor know where to go to get this test. I feel like they are just not going to say yes and I'm wasting my time. I guess i posted my story to see if anyone else is having problem like me or if anyone knows a lawyer that would deal with matters like this? ThanksNever give the gates up and always trust your rears! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DiverMike 5 #2 January 13, 2011 Join Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association (AOPA) for a year. Just indicate you want to pass the 3rd class to become a student pilot. They have an entire department of people who will give specific advise about passing and or getting waivers for a 3rd class cert. Much cheaper than a lawyer - and they have as much or more expertise in the area you need. For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chutem 0 #3 January 13, 2011 QuoteJoin Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association (AOPA) for a year. Just indicate you want to pass the 3rd class to become a student pilot. They have an entire department of people who will give specific advise about passing and or getting waivers for a 3rd class cert. Much cheaper than a lawyer - and they have as much or more expertise in the area you need. AOPA is excellent for this. Dr. Bruce C. in the medical forum is "the man". You can get a free 6 month membership by expressing interest in becoming a student pilot. Don't waste any time do it now. If there is a way, Dr. Bruce C. can find it for you. James Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PiLFy 0 #4 January 13, 2011 http://www.questdiagnostics.com/employersolutions/hair_testing_es.html Hi Ozzy, I can't help you w/the other stuff. Here's how to get that hair test done, though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ozzy13 0 #5 January 13, 2011 Quotehttp://www.questdiagnostics.com/employersolutions/hair_testing_es.html Hi Ozzy, I can't help you w/the other stuff. Here's how to get that hair test done, though. That's funny because when I was at Quest lab on the 11th. They told me they will test but wont collect. I would have to go to my doctor for collection and my Doctor does not do it..Ill call them in the morning. Thanks for other suggestion I'm going to look into joining the AOPANever give the gates up and always trust your rears! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #6 January 14, 2011 QuoteJoin Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association (AOPA) for a year. Just indicate you want to pass the 3rd class to become a student pilot. They have an entire department of people who will give specific advise about passing and or getting waivers for a 3rd class cert. Much cheaper than a lawyer - and they have as much or more expertise in the area you need. Do this. :-)---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ozzy13 0 #7 January 14, 2011 Just to add. I did contact USPA and they could give me no help. Randy at head quarters is who deals with the FAA and its the area of airport Access not medicals. He was very nice but could not help.Never give the gates up and always trust your rears! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ozzy13 0 #8 January 14, 2011 Done. Looking over their website now. I'm not sure how they will help but we will see.Never give the gates up and always trust your rears! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Para5-0 0 #9 January 14, 2011 Just a fyi, this has been a torubling trend that I have noticed. You are not alone, it seems like anyone with an alcoholic issue (DWI/DUI) is being put through the ringer as well. The problem I have is not with them asking for some sort of documentation, the problem I have is there seems to be NO protocol and each case is a "What ever they feel like asking for scenario". That torubles me. Now you have spent upwards of 1000.00 to try to appease them to no avail. I wish they had a category that was a medical class three Not for flying but specifically for skydiving. I happen to know a bit about Ozzy's situation based on the fact I was his Tandem I/E and it is very troubling to me knowing how I have watched him jump through extraordinary hoops. There seems to be a definate disconnect between FAA Medical personnell and skydivers. I would love to see more education on their end so when you try to explain you are going to be taking students on skydives they dont look at you with three eyes. I will continue to try to help you on this one, just keep the faith and understand the they are just trying to dot their I's and cross their T's in case down the road you wig out on us. lol Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ozzy13 0 #10 January 14, 2011 Well these are the criteria for a class three medical http://www.aopa.org/members/files/fars/far-67.html#14:2.0.1.1.5.4 After reading that I don't think I know one tandem master that should have their medical. LMAONever give the gates up and always trust your rears! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Para5-0 0 #11 January 14, 2011 One thing that bothers me tremendously is that you were forth coming and completely honest on all of your forms. What signal does that send to anyone going for the exam? It also seems like everything you do is not good enough for one reason or another. The fact they made you go and get an evaluation, then a full urine exam okay. You pass both with flying colors and they dont accept either wanting more. Are yousure you didnt fail one of their relatives on an AFF jump? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Canadianfella 0 #12 January 14, 2011 Does the paperwork (USPA TDM Application) not say you need an FAA Class 3 OR EQUIVALENT??? Head up here to Canada, get your class 3 here, where nothing has to be submitted to Transport Canada or the FAA... send that to USPA and get back to livin' the dream. I have a CDN Class 3 medical and USPA was happy enough with that to give me my USPA tdm rating... I've done plenty of tandems in the US without ever having an FAA medical... or ever having any government organization know anything about my medical history... the paperwork went directly from the doctor to me, no copies anywhere else. No stress, no hoops, no FAA, no big brother... just a short appt and maybe $80. ...that reminds me, I need another one soon... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DiverMike 5 #13 January 14, 2011 QuoteI wish they had a category that was a medical class three Not for flying +1 I agree completely. It is ridiculous that a 3rd Class Medical is required. From the FAA's point of view, the certificate is for exercising the rights of piloting a plane. They will not waive any part of it because you are only likely to use it as a TI. I went to a sleep clinic several years ago and was 'diagnosed' as having mild sleep apnea. You wouldn't believe the shit I have to go through now to get a 3rd class medical. I guess it is justified given that pilots may fall asleep on long cross country flights, but does anybody really believe a TI will fall asleep on the way down? The 3rd Class medical is not a 'one size fits all' medical examination. It is specifically designed for pilots and pilots only. For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #14 January 14, 2011 T-I's would still need the Class III for flying as we are piloting the System and have a Student (Some times falsely referred to as a "passenger"), correct? MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DiverMike 5 #15 January 14, 2011 The FAA does not consider TI as an aviation duty. Someday they may define what is considered to be a 'parachutist in command', but currently they have no regulations regarding TI. You could be blind, deaf, paralyzed from the eyebrows down, jumping a queen size sheet, performing TI with 12 baby orphans strapped to your chest with duct tape and you would not be violating any FAR's since TI is not under the FAA's jurisdiction. For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Para5-0 0 #16 January 14, 2011 Your solution seems doable. I spoke to Jim Crouch about this topic and the equivelant it specifically for foreign exams only but I dont know how they look at it if the TI lives in the US. I hate to speak about it without actually knowing if it would be an American solution. Since my post above I have received no less than 5 pm's from guys who are battling with the FAA over medicals. Most were due to DWI/DUI issues, but all have one thing in common. The FAA is making them go so above and beyond it is almost laughable. It appears they are looking for documentation stating there is no way the person will ever drink again. Ozzy had a full psychological work up and it still wasnt good enough because the Dr. cannot say unequivically he will never drink again. Think aobut how ridiculous that is, what Doctor could ever make such a statement. This is all boiling down to who will take responsibility if the TM screws up. Now look at the extra expense all of these guys are having to endure to satisfy the requirement. Dont misunderstand me, I agree with having a medical as a requirement, I just wish there were different options outside of the FAA and gevernment intervention. Maybe the FAA could accept a full physical in lieu of a FAA medical class exam, maybe including an alcohol and drug screen. I mean asking him for a 90 hair analysis test seems a bit overboard after he already submitted to two urine analysis's already. I look at this personally, what if i am prescribed soome medication that is on their secret list of medications that raise a red flag. Does that mean I will have to now go through full drug screening, at my own expense? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Canadianfella 0 #17 January 14, 2011 QuoteYour solution seems doable. I spoke to Jim Crouch about this topic and the equivelant it specifically for foreign exams only but I dont know how they look at it if the TI lives in the US. Maybe give him a call again and find out... I don't see why it should be an issue... They're basically the same thing. The other question is this: Why won't an american doctor forgo sending in your medical to the FAA and just print you off a copy, store his in his records? Is the doctor required by law to submit the medical paperwork if you specifically say it's ONLY for skydiving? USPA doesn't require the FAA to provide the paperwork... just the jumper, yes no? And maybe try talking to Jay Stokes as well as Jim... I've always gotten better answers with less run-around from Jay... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #18 January 14, 2011 http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgFAR.nsf/0/5d73a27815be37a986256eed005e150d!OpenDocument While the FAR does not say specifically to hold the Class III, it does say; "Has successfully completed a tandem instructor course given by the manufacturer of the tandem parachute system used in the parachute operation or a course acceptable to the Administrator. (v) Has been certified by the appropriate parachute manufacturer or tandem course provider as being properly trained on the use of the specific tandem parachute system to be used. " Part of the certification Process is a Class III OR equivalent. So just get an Equivalent physical till the FAA Indiana State Legislation starts a Nation Wide Law change run making us all go Class III or higher. The FSDO in Nashville has told me personally that he reads Parachutist in Command as Pilot in Command. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ozzy13 0 #19 January 14, 2011 Im really frustrated. I have not drank any kind of alcohol in 11 years. I submitted several letters from people in my life who have stated this. One of them is my treating doctor of 8 years. This is all because I put on app that I have crones and I received a DWI in 1996. Again I did get the medical took the course did some tandems then it was revoked and the conditions began. Every time i meet their requirements they reply that its insufficient. I paid $450 for the eval and paid for urine drug testing. I do not have the funds for this hair test. The FAA is stuck on stupid and will not allow me to get the medical without the hair. Here lies the problem, what's to say after paying for that they wont tell me its insignificant. I'm so done until things change. I don't like the fact I'm being judged for something that happened 15 years ago. It clearly states 2 years in their requirements Edited to add I joined the PAOA and they cant help. I have to meet the FAA's requirement and cant/wont waist any more of my money on something ( I feel they will never give me)Never give the gates up and always trust your rears! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PiLFy 0 #20 January 14, 2011 QuoteQuotehttp://www.questdiagnostics.com/employersolutions/hair_testing_es.html Hi Ozzy, I can't help you w/the other stuff. Here's how to get that hair test done, though. That's funny because when I was at Quest lab on the 11th. They told me they will test but wont collect. I would have to go to my doctor for collection and my Doctor does not do it..Ill call them in the morning. Thanks for other suggestion I'm going to look into joining the AOPA This link is @the bottom of the hair testing page I sent you: https://secure.questdiagnostics.com/ViewsFlash/servlet/viewsflash?cmd=page&pollid=es!contact_0910 I know Quest does this testing. I don't know the particulars. Contact them. They'll walk you through it. I believe only certain locations are authorized to do it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chutem 0 #21 January 15, 2011 No, the AOPA can not change the FAA rules for a class 3 medical. Yes, they can help you navigate through the pitfalls of the FAA rules. If you want an FAA class 3 medical you will have to jump through the hoops. Had the 1996 DUI not been reported by you it would have been found in the national driver license database check that is done and you would be screwed. James Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ozzy13 0 #22 January 15, 2011 Thanks to everyone that pm'ed me. Its nice to know I'm not alone in this mess.Never give the gates up and always trust your rears! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #23 January 16, 2011 QuoteThe FSDO in Nashville has told me personally that he reads Parachutist in Command as Pilot in Command. Being that you can operate as PIC of a 'sport' category plane with just a DL.... The USPA should work on getting the FAA to accept the same medical standards. Come to think of it.... I'll call the USPA tue."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skydivesg 6 #24 January 16, 2011 I think the real difference here is that in order for a pilot to take passengers for money, they need a commercial rating which requires a Class II medical. Since tandem passengers are paying for their ride some people think it is reasonable to require a medical for the TI. Maybe we should be thankful the FAA doesn't require a Class IIBe the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DiverMike 5 #25 January 17, 2011 QuoteMaybe we should be thankful the Tandem Manufacturer FAA doesn't require a Class II As been brought up in this thread already, it is completely the tandem manufacturer's decision as part of the certification process to require a 3rd class medical. If it ever does fall under FAA jurisdiction, they would certainly require a second class medical since you are carrying a passenger/student for hire. For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
