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aerialcameraman

tandem canopy size

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I suggest you go back and watch the video.

it was a 45 degree turn to the right that was corrected back towards the left which resulted in a total direction change of about 15-20 degrees. So really all the turn achieved is less forward speed and a pendulum/ sache effect. He would have been better off coming straight in.

The rest of your rant looks like an attemt to pluck strings and create an argument about how I am a DZO that just wants to make money and you are an IE that wants to make the sport safer.

I am not going to go there, I know what your persona is like, I just suggest you work on you mathmatical and observagtion skills as you description of that turn was completely incorrect and as an IE you should be able to assess such a turn and make sure that people do not intentionally wash off their speed immediatly prior to landing.

As a DZO I would take them aside and quietly ask them to either fly staight in or do a 45 or 90 turn, correcting back towards the camera guy is a no no...

Landing is the most important part of the jump.

You can fuck up your exit, you can fuck up your spot and get away with it sometimes, sometimes not; but the landing is very very important a fuck up is more difficult to get away with.

It is important for you as an IE to determine what is correct and what is not.

These forums are not just for those that wish to paticpate in writing, they are more often for those that simply read and I hate to see ( and i see all to often) people attacking those with a different point of view.

Discussion is how we learn.

We are not all right, and we cannot be right all the time, what we learn depends on what we are told. All too often the incorrect information is portrayed on this site and I see it repeated in the field.
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

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I love this site. All the assumptions on a 5 second video. I work with John for the past two years. He is one of the most consistent/safe instructors Iv worked with. Not sure how you could say that that video was anything but a good landing.

Iv watched TI's try to stand up landings to be cool hurting the student. One time breaking both ankles on the student. Can stand up landing be safe? Yes Is it always safest to do so? NO

I love Monday morning quarterbacking on DZdork.com Its Entertaining
Rant over :S

Never give the gates up and always trust your rears!

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All the assumptions on a 5 second video. I work with John for the past two years. He is one of the most consistent/safe instructors Iv worked with. Not sure how you could say that that video was anything but a good landing.



the result of the landing was fine, the approch was not very well executed.

I am not having a go at him about his landings, it is the grilling he and mike gave jump dude for suggesting perfectly sensible changes that could have been made.

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Iv watched TI's try to stand up landings to be cool hurting the student. One time breaking both ankles on the student.



then they were idiots, it is not difficult to determine what can be stood up and what cannot.

I will only stand up if the approach was well executed, don't use some wanker that broke a passengers ankles as an example of why landing should not be stood up.

comments like that are what created the dorkzone.com stigma.

practice what you preach.
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

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If what I gave him was a grilling, people here must have some pretty thin skin. Sorry if I grilled anyone, my bad :|

Again, not my finest approach, but nothing I would ever feel the need to call someone on. If your approaches are always perfect, you got one up on me. I'm sure we are all taking this a bit personally.

I'll throw the approach out and stand by the original intent of my post to jumpdude, that is a great example of a sliding landing as apposed to a butt bomb. It's a great skill to learn and at least where I jump, is the landing you will see 90% of the time from all of our instructors.

Regardless of canopy size, condition and student size, you can pretty much guarantee a student can get up from a landing injury free if you keep them from touching the ground.


Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome

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I did look at the video. Several times. I draw the conclusion we need to split the difference on the number of Degrees.

The T-I did nothing unsafe and made a very safe approach and landing, did he NEED to correct back to the Camera Operator? No. But he did so safely.

The rest of my post was to point out how we are coming at this from two different directions. You can call it a rant if you want.

I agree a safe landing is tantamount in Tandem Instructional Skydiving. Probably even priority number one. Hook turns, Turns greater than 90 degrees, "stabby" approaches, or any technique that does not let the T-I stay in control through the touch down, are all bad form.

Matt
An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

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The goal of my jump isn't to stand up, it is to bring the student back safely.



+1.

The goal of any Tandem is to give the student a fun and safe jump. Many times landing on your ass is easier and safer than trying to stand up.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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The goal of my jump isn't to stand up, it is to bring the student back safely.



+1.

The goal of any Tandem is to give the student a fun and safe jump. Many times landing on your ass is easier and safer than trying to stand up.



+1 Amen, that is right !

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For whom?no need to answer. Again sorry I said anything.



Evaluating appoaches from video is common from aff, high performance canopy piloting to tandem examination. So I really do not understand what you are saying.
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

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If what I gave him was a grilling, people here must have some pretty thin skin. Sorry if I grilled anyone, my bad



I have to appologise (to you) as it was not you that gave him a grilling.

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[matthewcline] Really Dud? the guy has not only ten times the amount of jumps but probably ten times the tandems, if not more.

Your letting "Cool" and "Madd Skillz" get in the way of Student Safety and Professionalism.



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[chris74] Don't waste your time Matt, this guy is a dick.



These 2 comments did not add to the conversation, they turned to conversation into a tangent.

So once again I apologise for insinuating that it was you, your comments have been nothing but professional.

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Again, not my finest approach, but nothing I would ever feel the need to call someone on. If your approaches are always perfect, you got one up on me. I'm sure we are all taking this a bit personally.



The conversation changed (at the point the above comments were made) from the touchdown to the approach, I agree entirely with jumpdude that that approach could have been performed a bit better and if so the landing could have been stood up.

Customers get a great sense of satisfaction if they stand up the landing, so if it is safe, whay not stand up?

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I'll throw the approach out and stand by the original intent of my post to jumpdude, that is a great example of a sliding landing as apposed to a butt bomb. It's a great skill to learn and at least where I jump, is the landing you will see 90% of the time from all of our instructors.



There was nothing at all wrong with the actual landing, I land like that when my approach was not performed within my window of acceptance for a stand up. which by the way would be 20% of the time.

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Regardless of canopy size, condition and student size, you can pretty much guarantee a student can get up from a landing injury free if you keep them from touching the ground.



Yes and when I stand up the customers do not touch the ground until we have come to a complete stop. they just put thier feet down.

That is my briefing to them "keep your feet up, until we come to a complete stop".

I slide, they keep thie feet up.

I will post a video later to show you what I mean.

Once again I apologise for mistaking you for the others.

Sorry
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

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I agree a safe landing is tantamount in Tandem Instructional Skydiving. Probably even priority number one. Hook turns, Turns greater than 90 degrees, "stabby" approaches, or any technique that does not let the T-I stay in control through the touch down, are all bad form.



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Really Dud? the guy has not only ten times the amount of jumps but probably ten times the tandems, if not more.

Your letting "Cool" and "Madd Skillz" get in the way of Student Safety and Professionalism.

Matt



As you are an IE, the above comment is very bad form.

You should be aware that washing off speed before landing is bad form, correcting you approach while washing off speed to meet the camera guy, is bad form also.

You need to re evaluate how you present yourself as an IE.

Mocking newer, keener TI's that are not quite grasping some fundamentals is far from professional, with your type of comments, he will simply ignore everything you have to say (and potentially continue to make the same mistakes).

Pick up your game and show some respect for those that are keen to learn.

Yes some are a bit too keen, may day some silly things and they maybe surrounded by compacent TI's that give them incorrect information. You job is to nurture people through their experience, not mock them.
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

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Don't waste your time Matt, this guy is a dick.
Christophe



That was a personal attack that adds nothing but contempt to the conversation.

If you are going to add to the converstaion, I suggest you add something worth while or simply keep your disrepectful thoughts to yourself.
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

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I agree a safe landing is tantamount in Tandem Instructional Skydiving. Probably even priority number one. Hook turns, Turns greater than 90 degrees, "stabby" approaches, or any technique that does not let the T-I stay in control through the touch down, are all bad form.



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Really Dud? the guy has not only ten times the amount of jumps but probably ten times the tandems, if not more.

Your letting "Cool" and "Madd Skillz" get in the way of Student Safety and Professionalism.

Matt



As you are an IE, the above comment is very bad form.Sure taken out of context it could be.

You should be aware that washing off speed before landing is bad form, correcting you approach while washing off speed to meet the camera guy, is bad form also.Are you teaching me? if so I am all ears (eyes here), make me SAFER.

You need to re evaluate how you present yourself as an IE.I will take that under advisement.

Mocking newer, keener TI's that are not quite grasping some fundamentals is far from professional, with your type of comments, he will simply ignore everything you have to say (and potentially continue to make the same mistakes).

Pick up your game and show some respect for those that are keen to learn.If I thought that was the only reason for his posts I would agree, but as he has been arguing from the "wrong" according to many here, that is hard to do.

Yes some are a bit too keen, may day some silly things and they maybe surrounded by compacent TI's that give them incorrect information. You job is to nurture people through their experience, not mock them.

As is your through proper examples, no?

We do not see eye to eye on every thing, but one thing I would like to think we agree on, is it is the Students Safety first.

Saying a landing HAS to have speed induced to make it a safe landing is categorically false. A safe landing can be done in many ways. There was nothing "wrong" in the video shown in that landing. You KNOW that and have even said so in other posts why not now?

Matt
An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

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Saying a landing HAS to have speed induced to make it a safe landing is categorically false. A safe landing can be done in many ways. There was nothing "wrong" in the video shown in that landing. You KNOW that and have even said so in other posts why not now?



I said earlier that he would have been better off coming straight in. Nothing wrong with coming straight in.

To turn right, then left and land in a similar direction as you approached from; only reduces your foward speed, and in tun your flare and the safety of the student.

I never said inducing speed should be done on every landing it should not. That takes practice and experience, but washing off speed certainly should not be done and only increased the liklihood of an incident.

the approach was not the reason i bought all this up, it was you attitude and and comments about 'Mad Skilz'.

When it comes to passing knowledge you need to respect everyone as an IE not just those you are buddies with.
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

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Saying a landing HAS to have speed induced to make it a safe landing is categorically false. A safe landing can be done in many ways. There was nothing "wrong" in the video shown in that landing. You KNOW that and have even said so in other posts why not now?



i said earlier that he would have been better off coming straight in.

to turn right then left and land in a similar direction as you approached fom only reduces your foward speed.This seems to be counter to reality. Turns induce speed unless countered, correct?

I never said inducing speed should be done on every landing, but washing off speed certainly should not.

Knowing how to do a "slow" (braked) landing may save a life or at least a leg.

Matt
An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

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Bro, do we really need to have this discussion?

A braked landing is an induced speed landing, the braked approach lets the canppy surge and increases the forward speed and flare compared to coming straight in.

Sashay movements reduce forward speed. This can be advantagous (for safety) if one is going to over shoot into an obsticle, but if it is perfomed simply to land next the camea guy then it is not benifical as far as safety is concerned.
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

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Bro, do we really need to have this discussion?Of course, for the benefit of others.

A braked landing is an induced speed landing, the braked approach lets the canppy surge and increases the forward speed and flare compared to coming straight in.I am not talking about the "Stall Surge" landing, but a braked approach. Maybe a difference of terms, but it is how it is referred to by the Manufacturer of the Sigma, "Stall Surge".

Sashay movements reduce forward speed
(I agree, if it is a true sashay). This can be advantagous (for safety) if one is going to over shoot into an obsticle (this is highly frowned upon in the US as a technique), but if it is perfomed simply to land next the camea guy then it is not benifical as far as safety is concerned.


An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

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Don't waste your time Matt, this guy is a dick.
Christophe


that is a personal attack! I was merely discussing tandem techniques. i thought that is what this forum was for!! where is the moderator in this forum that was just rude >:(

Yes it is because of your behavior.
You are a noob and don't even understand why you will crash using an inadequat landing technic, probably endangering your life, your passenger's lives and screwing up the lives of other DZ's users! ...

Here was my answer .
Xtophe
PS : It seems as soon as a piss contest is on, you are in.
Do you ever feel like you need to justify the way you practice your job ?
PS2 : Yes, some Tandem factories use tiny tandem canopies because they usualy land in high Winds, the "good4yourarmsafter14jumps" Label and because they also spend less time under canopy & Time is Money ! :S

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For whom?no need to answer. Again sorry I said anything.



Evaluating appoaches from video is common from aff, high performance canopy piloting to tandem examination. So I really do not understand what you are saying.



my point Is not from a 5 second video. Your point is mute. This is why I hate this site.
Never give the gates up and always trust your rears!

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that is a personal attack! I was merely discussing tandem techniques.



Glad that you mentioned that - I could have sworn that you made a fresh new account and were trolling the feeders, laughing your ass of and secretly making fun on everybody that couldn't help himself and just had to feed the trolls... :)

"Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci
A thousand words...

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that is a personal attack! I was merely discussing tandem techniques.



Glad that you mentioned that - I could have sworn that you made a fresh new account and were trolling the feeders, laughing your ass of and secretly making fun on everybody that couldn't help himself and just had to feed the trolls... :)


i was just trying to discuss techniques but there are so many guys like you that just throw out insults. no learning here just a bunch of skygods. sorry for trying to learn, some people have been helpful, but you are a dick! >:(

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you are a dick! [Mad]


Yes!

But then again, that is also a personal attack...

And if it is not, you haven't been around here long enough and haven't given enough detail about your amiable personality when filling in your profile (on feb 17, right when you asked your first question) to be allowed to call ME that.

Now RUN - there's a greenie right behind you!
:)

"Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci
A thousand words...

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