Antidepressants and TIs

[JohnDeere 0]

Just thinking....Maybe you should take that of with the DZ instead of posting if all over the net. You should really edit your post.....Let me guess this TM came from your DZ and your just now posting it on the net since this person is at another DZ?

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

[pilot-one 0]

No. I don't really care where he is. And I really don't have anything to take up with anybody else. But you are right and I did take out the name of the dropzone. I didn't mean to put the blame on any one DZ. I was putting the blame on the FAA for issuing a flight medical to someone that has a long standing history.
I am a pilot. I have been for a long time. I have thousands of hours flying commercially and I know hundreds of pilots that I've worked with. Never once did any of us even think about missing any prescription or medical condition, on the application for medical, much less lie about it.
It's makes me sick to think a skydiver would not even stop to think that lying at some point is going to catch up with him.

[JohnDeere 0]

I think that the instructor should be outed to the DZ! That way you are sure they know and they cant deny knowing. Im with you that a TI should not be doing that. But it sounded more personal than that. I have noticed some shit flying back and forth from a few DZ's down there and figured this was just another attempt to throw shit at another DZ. If Im wrong im sorry for ASSuming!

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

[wayneflorida 0]

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I know a pilot who was caught falsifying his medical application

How?

Because the FAA checks records. Medical records and Police records(DUI).

I don't know the answer to this: Does the FAA require people to sign HIPAA waivers (which authorizes someone to access another person's medical records)? Similarly, is it common for commercial air carriers to get their employees to sign HIPAA waivers? I'd think that would probably be required in order for the FAA and/or an employer to access a pilot's or other aviation industry employee's medical records.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
FAA medical application form 8500

You sign the bottom and authorize the FAA to
check national driver data base thru state records.
That's it. The FAA probably has to get a warrant
for medical records.

5 years and/or $250,000 for false statements on form 8500

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[freefalle 0]

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I know a pilot who was caught falsifying his medical application

How?

Because the FAA checks records. Medical records and Police records(DUI).

I don't know the answer to this: Does the FAA require people to sign HIPAA waivers (which authorizes someone to access another person's medical records)? Similarly, is it common for commercial air carriers to get their employees to sign HIPAA waivers? I'd think that would probably be required in order for the FAA and/or an employer to access a pilot's or other aviation industry employee's medical records.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
FAA medical application form 8500

You sign the bottom and authorize the FAA to
check national driver data base thru state records.
That's it. The FAA probably has to get a warrant
for medical records.

5 years and/or $250,000 for false statements on form 8500

Because there is no national repository for medical records or precriptions at this point applicants would have to sign a hippa waiver and provide the name of thier family physician. So its as simple as saying "I don't have a family doctor" and there is really no way for the FAA to find out. Hopefully, eventually there will be an online system to find out what medications a person has been prescribed and by what health care provider which would greatly reduce the number of people getting multiple prescriptions for narcotics which is entirely another issue....

Chuck Bryan

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[Andy9o8 0]

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its as simple as saying "I don't have a family doctor" and there is really no way for the FAA to find out.

There sort of is: through the applicant's health insurance carrier, which will have a record of all medical providers for whom claims from that applicant-patient have been submitted. On the other hand, if someone gets certain medical treatment, prescriptions, etc. from a doctor and simply pays the doctor and pharmacy directly, w/o submitting anything to health insurance, then yes, that would probably be very hard for an investigator to detect.

[riggerrob 558]

"

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I think that the instructor should be outed to the DZ! ..."

....................................................................

Put it in writing.
Hand a copy of your letter to the offending TI.
Hand a copy of your letter to the Chief Instructor.
Send (registered letter) a copy to the DZO.
... and quietly wait for their reply.

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[Southern_Man 0]

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its as simple as saying "I don't have a family doctor" and there is really no way for the FAA to find out.

There sort of is: through the applicant's health insurance carrier, which will have a record of all medical providers for whom claims from that applicant-patient have been submitted. On the other hand, if someone gets certain medical treatment, prescriptions, etc. from a doctor and simply pays the doctor and pharmacy directly, w/o submitting anything to health insurance, then yes, that would probably be very hard for an investigator to detect.

These sorts of disclosures would also be subject to HIPPA laws, though. Not saying it can't be found.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[Andy9o8 0]

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its as simple as saying "I don't have a family doctor" and there is really no way for the FAA to find out.

There sort of is: through the applicant's health insurance carrier, which will have a record of all medical providers for whom claims from that applicant-patient have been submitted. On the other hand, if someone gets certain medical treatment, prescriptions, etc. from a doctor and simply pays the doctor and pharmacy directly, w/o submitting anything to health insurance, then yes, that would probably be very hard for an investigator to detect.

These sorts of disclosures would also be subject to HIPPA laws, though. Not saying it can't be found.

Yes, all medical records are subject to HIPAA laws.
But even if you sign a HIPAA waiver, and/or even if your medical records are subject to, say, a subpoena, they have to be found first. But if you go to Dr. X, and pay him directly in cash, and neither you nor his office submit any of his charges to your health insurance, and you use a different pharmacy for Dr. X's scrips than the one you normally use (and pay them directly in cash, too), and you never disclose any of this to anyone, I don't really see how this fact would be discovered without some seriously broad, in-depth investigation, especially if the Dr. and the pharmacy are well away from the local areas near where you live or work (which an investigator might canvass).

[pilot-one 0]

It's about integrity and not any disclosure laws. It's not about what you can get away with it's about being safe. I think it's really selfish to lie about this stuff and put unknowing trusting citizens' lives in jeopardy.

[freefalle 0]

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It's about integrity and not any disclosure laws. It's not about what you can get away with it's about being safe. I think it's really selfish to lie about this stuff and put unknowing trusting citizens' lives in jeopardy.

+1

[GLIDEANGLE 1]

I completely agree about the integrity issue.

Unfortunately the FAA's policies on this matter remain way behind the science and practice of mental health today (even with this new policy). As a result folks find themselves trapped between an archaic policy and an effective treatment for a potentially fatal condition. I don't endorse lying… but I acknowledge that the policy certianly encourages it.

What I find amazing is the fact that many medical conditions that can result in sudden physical incapacitation can be granted FAA medical certificates under tight controls, but that effectively treated mental health conditins have been (and largely continue to be) permenant disqualifications.

The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

[Andy9o8 0]

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It's about integrity and not any disclosure laws. It's not about what you can get away with it's about being safe. I think it's really selfish to lie about this stuff and put unknowing trusting citizens' lives in jeopardy.

+1

+2

I agree completely. I really wasn't trying to advocate doing this - I was just musing aloud about how if a person was determined to evade employer or FAA scrutiny, it's technically feasible. Or to put it another way, just because someone has an FAA cert, doesn't mean that the FAA necessarily knows everything about his medical history.

[dreaming13000 1]

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well maybe it's just me then...

not just you

"A man only gets in life what he is believing for, nothing more and nothing less" Kenneth Hagen

[toolbox 0]

I do not care as long as I can ride the tiger

[Ron 7]

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nobody is going to jump through those hoops, when asked "are you taking any medications" the answer is going to be "no" Lets just be real about it.

They can and do find out. I just got a letter from the FAA saying they need more info on the kidney stone I had at Nationals last year.

*I* didn't remember a kidney stone being a problem for a medical. So, I didn't disclose it to the FAA.... But I sure got a letter from them.

So they can and do find out things you don't disclose.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[jumpwally 0]

So put an end to it ! Are you going to wait till there is a death and then step forward and try to be a hero saying you saw it comming ? No wonder the world is nutz.......

smile, be nice, enjoy life
FB # - 1083

[pilot-one 0]

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So put an end to it ! Are you going to wait till there is a death and then step forward and try to be a hero saying you saw it comming ? No wonder the world is nutz.......

I have been coming forward since the day he started his TI training a few years ago. I am also going to call his bluff on jump numbers. Not that jump numbers really matter but to point out that lying pathologically isn't a trait most people would want in a TI.

[Southern_Man 0]

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I completely agree about the integrity issue.

Unfortunately the FAA's policies on this matter remain way behind the science and practice of mental health today (even with this new policy). As a result folks find themselves trapped between an archaic policy and an effective treatment for a potentially fatal condition. I don't endorse lying… but I acknowledge that the policy certianly encourages it.

What I find amazing is the fact that many medical conditions that can result in sudden physical incapacitation can be granted FAA medical certificates under tight controls, but that effectively treated mental health conditins have been (and largely continue to be) permenant disqualifications.

+1

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[riggerrob 558]

" ... I have been coming forward since the day he started his TI training a few years ago. I am also going to call his bluff on jump numbers. Not that jump numbers really matter but to point out that lying pathologically isn't a trait most people would want in a TI.

[skypuppy 1]

And how would you define an alcoholic? I'm sure there are lots of us out there in the skydiving world....

I'm humourously reminded of my buddy's son, an officer in the armed forces. On his medical the doctor (female) asked him if he drank beer every day. As a young single guy in his 20's, living on base with a bunch of other young single guys who would all get together at the mess each day, what do think they would be doing? He couldn't believe a doctor in the forces would be surprised that a young single guy in the forces would have a beer or two each day....

I'd be more tempted to pull the doctor's licence than tell the guy he's an alcoholic.

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[riggerrob 558]

A beer or two a day does not make you an alcoholic.
Rather, if you consistently drink enough that you are over the legal limit to drive, then you are a drunk.

The Canadian Armed Forces trains thousands of alcoholics every year.

I was too young to drink when I joined the CAF, but after a few drunken bullies offered to punch me out - for not drinking with them - I started drinking beer. It took me a while to acquire a taste for beer, but soon I was getting drunk six nights out of the week.
I did not drink while serving in Alert and I did not drink while at sea, but made up for it by becoming a binge drinker while ashore. I am still amazed at how many times I stumbled back to the ship - drunk - through the red light districts of more foreign ports (Amsterdam, Bermuda, Bordeaux, Bruges, Copenhagen, Den Helder, Lisbon, Livorno, Malaga, Norfolk, San Juan, Phildelphia, Portsmouth, etc.) than I care to remember - and never got mugged!

After three conversation with police (and no tickets) - when I was too drunk to drive - I started to realize that driving home drunk was a bad idea.

Since it was almost impossible to sober up - in uniform - I left the Canadian Armed Forces in 1987. It took me three tries, but I finally sobered up and have not consumed alcohol in the last 14 years.

[steve1 5]

I have a ton of respect for anyone who is able to stop drinking after struggling with alcoholism.

Most of my relatives are alcoholics. Our garbage can was filled with whiskey bottles when I grew up. My brother drank himself to death. My other brothers are far into the depths of alcoholism.

They all use denial to cover up the problem and continue on drinking. None of them have been able to stop.

I feel the real problem, in my family is depression. Most of it was caused by trauma in a dysfunctional family. They chose to drink rather than take something like an anti-depressant. Alcohol ruined family relationships and created huge problems in their life.

I could have become an alcoholic too. It was hard. I chose the anti-depressant route. I've tried to go off of it, but I realize I need it. I'll probably be on it all of my life. I'm willing to do that, because it enables me to feel normal.

Zoloft enables me to better concentrate. I feel that I am a safer skydiver when I am taking it.

But not all anti-depressents are the same. I tried Welbruton for a time, and it definitely wasn't for me. My memory, concentration, and anxiety were problems. I'd never consider doing something dangerous with a drug like that in my system....

I feel that this needs to be monitored by a Dr. and the FAA. An anti-depressant can make a person a safer skydiver, in my opinion. I'm glad the FAA is taking a second look at this.

But I wonder why the FAA is so down on anti-depressants, yet they turn a blind eye to people who have been drunk all night, and then jump or fly the next morning?....

[riggerrob 558]

Thanks for your open and honest reply.

Alcoholism is often self-medication for a bigger problem.
I was lonely and tried to find friends in a bottle.

Your experience proves that not all anti-depressant drugs work for everyone and it frequently takes a year or two for professionals (doctors and pharmacists) to work out the precise prescription. and that is why the FAA would like aircrew to wait a year (on anti-depressant drugs) before applying for medicals.

The other reason the FAA turns a blind eye to heavy drinkers is military tradition. Since heavy drinking is a military tradition and the airlines used to recruit most of their pilots from the military, the only way to reform some heavy drinkers is to wait until they retire.

[DFWAJG 4]

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I know a pilot who was caught falsifying his medical application

How?

Because the FAA checks records. Medical records and Police records(DUI).

Your medical records cannot be checked without your written consent. Police records are a different story.