safety of tandems jumps

[skypuppy 1]

My dzo claims that upt states doing tandems is the safest type of jump you can do statiscally, not only for students, but also for the tandem instructor.

Does anyone know where this information is?

I find it rather hard to believe myself, expecially jumping out of 182,s I find tandem jumps really beat a body up.

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[IanHarrop 37]

But they don't die very often.

I saw somewhere a statistic that looked at fatality rates for "normal" skydives versus Tandem. It looked very good for tandems. Sorry, I have no idea where I saw that statistic... probably on here somewhere

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[billeisele 122]

what the DZO might be saying is, as a first time jumper a tandem is the safest jump, because the student has very little control of the outcome, vs. other types of student jumps where the student has a much higher degree of control

as for "safest for the tandem instructor", not sure I agree with that

statiscally it is probably true, fatalities are rare in tandem and more common as a solo jumper, but that is comparing apples to oranges

my ability to be safe as a TI can't be compared to the general safety of the skydiving community

Give one city to the thugs so they can all live together. I vote for Chicago where they have strict gun laws.

[koppel 3]

I aj sure that he meant to say

A Tandoom is the safest jump for a first time jumper to make and the most dangerous for an experienced jumper to make.

The statistics of there being fewer fatalities and injuries would probably be skewed by the fact that the person doing the tandem would in general be more experienced and hopefully as well would be following the risk minimisation procedures vigilantly.

I like my canopy...


...it lets me down.

[skypuppy 1]

No, categorically he was saying that UPT claims according to statistics that a tandem jump is the safest kind of jump you can make, whether you're the passenger or the TI. This would be partly because of the built-in systems on each jump -- ie, recommended handles checks, etc.

I would it if someone from UPT could chime in here, giving us the stats and exact wording.

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[johnny1488 1]

Most dangerous in theory, but not in statistics, I believe that's what he was going for.

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome

[skypuppy 1]

Ok, I did get a reply from Bill Booth. He's travelling and didn't have all the numbers and everything right with him, but what he said was uspa claims to have a fatality rate of about 1 in 80,000-100,000 jumps over the last 10 years. He figures over 1 million tandems are made each year with about 2 fatal jumps (4 deaths) on average for that last 25 years. So he's figuring 2 fatal jumps out of 1 million for a fatality rate of 1 incident (2 fatalities) per 500,000 jumps.

I would probably call it 1 fatality per 250,000 jumps in that case, but it is still safer than solo jumping, I guess, fatality-wise.

I have to wonder about the rate of injuries among tandem masters, though, compared to solos.

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[camamel 0]

The rate of injury is a lot lower then on the solo side.
First the one flying the canopy ( the instructor )have at least 500 jumps and in most case a few thousands.
Also for that level of experience the instructor doesn't have a very high load under his main.
Upt and other manufacturers, USPA, CSPA and DZO should start thinking raising that minimum to 1k soon. In fact, I think, it shoul be like that since a few years.

Richard Lavoie

When you think you're good...this is when you become dangerous.

[Andy9o8 0]

Quote

The rate of injury is a lot lower then on the solo side.
First the one flying the canopy ( the instructor )have at least 500 jumps and in most case a few thousands.
Also for that level of experience the instructor doesn't have a very high load under his main.
Upt and other manufacturers, USPA, CSPA and DZO should start thinking raising that minimum to 1k soon. In fact, I think, it shoul be like that since a few years.

I'd expect there'd be resistance to that from the smaller Cessna DZs - both jumpers and DZOs - especially those in Northern climes, where it can take quite some time to reach 1,000 jumps.

[tkhayes 125]

well, we have done some 65-70K jumps a year for 10 years or more.

3000-4000 each year are tandems. We have had no tandem fatalities but numerous other fatalities in the same period.

DO the math - that would make tandem jumping infinitely safer than experienced skydiving, at our place.

I am pretty sure USPA would have some stats on tandem numbers each year in the USA.

[skypuppy 1]

Yes, after talking to Bill Booth I am pretty much convinced, certainly about fatalities. Would still be interested to know about injuries....

Not sure if your dz would be an average sample, I imagine your tandem inst.s generally have more experience than the average inst. worldwide -- but I could be wrong.

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[Andrewwhyte 1]

My own experience suggests that injuries are much less common on tandem first jumps than solo first jumps. On the other hand I have been injured far more frequently on tandem jumps.

[skypuppy 1]

Yes, that's what I was asking, rates of injuries to instructors, not even necessarily serious injuries. But like you only seem to find anecdotal injuries, no stats.

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone