Tandems hooking up before take-off?

[riggerrob 558]

Tandem Instructors only ...
How many hooks do you attach before take-off?

Personally, I like to wait until I am high enough to bail-out, say 4,000 feet before attaching any hooks.

The only time I attach hooks before take-off is the left hip hook if I am jammed into the co-pilot's position in a narrow-body Cessna 182, because it is too cramped to attach after the door is closed.

[saly 0]

When operating from aircraft without a door, I attach at least one lower if the passenger is near (C182/C206U) the open door on the ground.

Other considerations is the space in the aircraft if you have larger passengers and using handcam if you connect on the ground or start connecting earlier.

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If you don't have wings you will never fly

[ast4711 0]

I personally hook them up on all 4 straps on the way to taxi. (Cessna 206 soloy with rear door).

I see the possible downsides, but I also like that I tell them then, "From now on, only together". I think it gives them a better feeling and make them more relaxed....

alex

--
www.tandemmaster.net
www.skydivegear.de

[feuergnom 22]

in cessnas (206, 182) - lower connectors as soon as we are boarded
other aircraft (depending on how we are seated) - mostly the upper connectors

as for the "downsides" - just like ast said: i know of them but still i prefer to get some connections done. imo one thing counts: if i have to get out early there are less things to think about with lowers already done

The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle

dudeist skydiver # 666

[piisfish 135]

in a Porter I hook the 2 lower hooks, but don't tighten up.

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[AggieDave 6]

The downside is being involved in an aircraft incident and you becoming incompasitated. Will the tandem student be aware enough or calm enough (even if shown prior) to be able to disconnect you from them? If not, will the other jumpers be calm enough to help out the student? (What if you're the only ones on board)?

Below an altitude in which you would exit a disabled aircraft, I don't believe it to be a good choice. I asked myself those same questions as above and decided that if I was in another plane crash, I wouldn't be hooked to my student so they would have a better chance of survival.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[feuergnom 22]

the real question is what is more common. situations where you have get out earlier than planned or a plane crashing - so the early bail-out-scenario seems more realistic to me

The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle

dudeist skydiver # 666

[pchapman 261]

C-182 widebody at DZ "A": No hooks. (Seating often is facing the student.)

Caravan at DZ "A": Lower hooks attached from takeoff.
(But the Caravan is new to the DZ and won't have the door for a couple weeks, so who knows if procedures are adjusted later.)
(Being hooked up at the hips seems to make it harder to get up to the kneeling position to hook up -- less movement coordination needed if taking hooks off, getting up, then reconnecting.)

Caravan at DZ "B": No hooks.

Seatbelts used in all cases.

[tsalnukt 1]

The "real" question is at what altitude would you get out of the plane if it was going down? Minimum exit altitude for tandems, on a reserve, is 2500 feet agl. In 182's and 206's I keep the seatbelt on until 2000' feet and then I'll hook up the lowers, loosely. If the pilot says get out, I cna just get the top snaps real quick, if there's time tighten up the lowers and get out. In turbines i wait until 1500' and then loose with lowers. For taxi, takeoff and landing in all planes I put a seatbelt on the student and show them where it is and how to use it.

[feuergnom 22]

sorry, no seat belts in 182's and 206's here - and i know that the whole discussion on when to get out can become rather academic real quick (e.g. no alti left, to many g's to move etc....)

The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle

dudeist skydiver # 666

[djmarvin 2]

Quote

The downside is being involved in an aircraft incident and you becoming incompasitated. Will the tandem student be aware enough or calm enough (even if shown prior) to be able to disconnect you from them? If not, will the other jumpers be calm enough to help out the student? (What if you're the only ones on board)?

Below an altitude in which you would exit a disabled aircraft, I don't believe it to be a good choice. I asked myself those same questions as above and decided that if I was in another plane crash, I wouldn't be hooked to my student so they would have a better chance of survival.

I agree with Dave. Just don't tell him. Also in case of a crash would the student be in a position to reach any of the hookups. (TI pinned on side so student can not reach the lower, as an example)

DJ Marvin
AFF I/E, Coach/E, USPA/UPT Tandem I/E
http://www.theratingscenter.com

[MakeItHappen 15]

Quote

I agree with Dave. Just don't tell him. Also in case of a crash would the student be in a position to reach any of the hookups. (TI pinned on side so student can not reach the lower, as an example)

um... correct me if I'm wrong, because I'm not a TI nor have ever done a tandem jump, but to the best of my knowledge a student/PAX can get out of the harness by undoing the chest strap, belly strap and leg straps. There are no requirements to undo the TI to pax connectors in order to get free of the pax harness.

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.
Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[rhys 0]

Quote

being involved in an aircraft incident and you becoming incompasitated.

I'm with dave in this one, in fact it is the rules in some places, a good practice is to use the single point restraints untill over 1000' and when disconnecting the single points then attach the lower attachments.

I have jumped in a plane with no door (navajo) and i used to connect the top snaps in case i got a random freak that may jump...

i don't like the idea of being attached to the customer before we can phisically jump out of the plane, aside from the no door scenario, there is no reason!

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[bclark 0]

Seat belts on until I am at an altitude at which I am sure that an emergency exit can be succesfully made. (which varies with aircraft and where I am seated.) After the seatbelt is off, I hook up the lowers only. (Straddle or floor seating.)

I think it is a bad idea to be hooked up on takeoff. I see ALOT of instructors do it. I think that if you are really high enough to make an emergency exit, you have a couple of seconds to make your hookups. I also agree that if you are incapacitated your student is unlikely to be able to free himself from you, especially if he / she is also injured.

[tsalnukt 1]

Agreed. And you don't even need to get them all hooked up and tightened down. At worst, do the top snaps really quick wrap up their legs with your and go. I think it's bad practice to attach a passenger before you can safely exit the airplane

[tetra316 0]

True, however in the event of a crash, do you really think the passenger will have the presence of mind to undo the chest strap, belly strap and leg strap. I think not. Not to mention most places I've seen do not teach the student how the harness works, they just suit them up.

[jgaley69 0]

I normally don't hook up, till time to get everything ready to exit......Unless in plane with a bench seat then can ride up with shoulders hooked up.

jgaley69
www.jumpelvis.com

[djmarvin 2]

Quote

um... correct me if I'm wrong, because I'm not a TI nor have ever done a tandem jump, but to the best of my knowledge a student/PAX can get out of the harness by undoing the chest strap, belly strap and leg straps. There are no requirements to undo the TI to pax connectors in order to get free of the pax harness.

.

You are correct, however we have all seen many students who can not figure out how to get out of the harness after a skydive. With adrenaline high it is not uncommon that some people can not settle their minds and think straight. It is just easier for them to release their seatbelt and move on.

DJ Marvin
AFF I/E, Coach/E, USPA/UPT Tandem I/E
http://www.theratingscenter.com

[JohnMitchell 14]

Quote

we have all seen many students who can not figure out how to get out of the harness after a skydive. With adrenaline high it is not uncommon that some people can not settle their minds and think straight.

That is so true. Isn't it funny?

[inextremis 0]

Seat belts only until survivable reserve altitude (2K+) then left upper hook only until 8k, then all hooks until 11K when the laterals are tightened and the excess stowed.

[tsalnukt 1]

We like to keep things as simple as possible for tandem students. undoing a seatbelt is WAY easier to undo then 4 strap on a tandem harness. Not to mention that if the plane had crashed, how do you get at all the friction adapters with people laying on top of you.

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

um... correct me if I'm wrong, because I'm not a TI nor have ever done a tandem jump, but to the best of my knowledge a student/PAX can get out of the harness by undoing the chest strap, belly strap and leg straps.

Half of the tandem students I've taken have had problems taking the harness off after the jump, in calm, non-life-threatening situations with out any help.

The plane crash I was in, I had problems getting the seat belt out of my harness (that I had routed it through). Other jumpers had other problems as well. I was an experienced jumper at the time and had problems.

Now take a typical tandem student, who has received a minimal amount of training and toss them into a serious flight/fight situation and see what happens to them. I imagine that they will react as many people I contact in my professional life react in high stress situations. Typically incorrectly and simple tasks confound them!

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[johnny1488 1]

I hook up the top left after 1000 feet if we are going to open the door.
If I somehow I find myself out of the plane in a catastrophic failure, the top left is the one I want to have on.

I unhook when the door is closed and hook up for the jump at 9k.

ohh, thats all in the otter.

the porter or cessna, the door doesn't open til we're ready, so no early hook up.

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome

[mikey348 0]

We jump 182's and 206's. We don't hook up anything til around 8000'. We aren't the smallest guys and it gets real tight as you well know. Being on your knees for anymore time than necassry makes it uncomfortable for both TI and student.

However, if anyone is getting out early, I will hook up at least one upper or lower depending on our seating arrangement.

"Admit nothing, deny everything, and demand proof"

[pete2005 0]

Hi
It was all before
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3030686;search_string=conect%20or%20not;#3030686