riggerrob 558 #76 September 29, 2004 Sunday I did 9 tandems and sold 5 handy-cam videos. A sixth student said that she was returning on Wednesday (pay day) to buy her video. Doubled my pay for the day! It was easier for me to draw patterns, learn how to sew handy-cam mounts, teach myself how to film them and learn to use our quirky analog editing suite than it was to ask my tight-fisted DZO for a raise. So until DZOs start paying better, I will continue to keep my eye open for new scams (i.e. handy-cam) that pay better. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #77 September 29, 2004 Direct link... http://www.skydivingmovies.com/ver2/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=1716 Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
clint 1 #78 November 17, 2004 If a tandem master just shoots the free fall then I would fire him. He's getting paid to do video and the tandem! TM's have seen how the video person does it and they would learn from them. If not then they won't be doing video. It's up to the DZO!Clint MacBeth Skydive Moab 435 259 JUMP M.O.A.B. Mother Of All Boogies Sept 19 - 23, 2012 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #79 November 18, 2004 QuoteQuotethey are a star for 6 minutes instead of 1 So I guess that means no handle checks, and flying the canopy in half brakes at all times in order to keep the camera on level with the student's face? Oh, and my video subjects are stars for 6+ minutes because I include pre-jump footage, in-plane footage, and a post-jump interview. If you are doing handle checks and truly flying your canopy (including full flight in preparation for landing) then the student is out of frame for significant parts of the video. When I shoot tandem video, the student is in frame the whole time, and I can get shots from a variety of angles, not just one. Are you also doing ground footage, in plane footage, and after-landing footage? Sounds like a lot to ask of a busy tandem instructor. I would bet that the video these students are getting is skydive only, from one angle only, with breaks in the coverage during landing and freefall. Doesn't sound so great to me. Of course I will be dismissed as a videographer who is afraid of losing his job. Bullshit. I don't feel threatened by the hand-cam, I just think the student's safety is being compromised for $$$ and they are getting an inferior product in the end. - Dan G But you miss the entire canopy flight down except the landing as a videographer, no matter what the TM does. Watch that video and tell me the section immediately after the canopy deployment didn't beat those post jump interviews. That was pretty darned awesome IMHO. I wouldnt' call it inferior, just different. Seems to be swings & roundabouts. You're definitely going to miss some great stuff with either approach. Maybe it's time to make a "deluxe" video package actually mean something and do both with some real editing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thegman 0 #80 November 18, 2004 Well i'd have to say that I think it is a bad idea. first of all the video probably wouldn't be as good because you wouldn't get all of the angles. But most importantly the tandem master is already taking on the responsibility of 2 lives. His own and also the new jumper. It just doesn't sound like a good Idea when you could easily have a camera flyer shoot video with much less risk involved. Quote http://www.freefallmaniacs.net Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dropzonefool 0 #81 November 18, 2004 I think the way to do this is to use the video from the T-I camera to supplement the original way of shooting video. You know edit both the cameras into one video, I bet the T-I get more of the really important issues like an interview with the passenger after opening, but fails in the landing catagory, and so on Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydiverjerry 0 #82 November 18, 2004 this debate has been going on for a while now, as a tandemmaster and a camera man i can see both sides of the argument. as a tandem master who has to do handy cam sometimes i dont like it, i dont like having to bring in another element into the skydive, but the dzo asks us to do it so i will use a handycam, but! first is safty so i will do my handle checks! and i will pull left with the handy on and its then a simple job to edit that out. ps i pull left or right but like to make a point somtimes! childish sure but if i have a mal with the handy on i need to know that i can do it. as a camera man (dont get to do so much of that these days) i agrea that the footage i get is way better than handy cam footage (just my oppinion) and by selling a cd full of photo,s i earn a little extra cash. blue skieslife is a journey not to arrive at the grave in a pristine condition but to skid in sideways kicking and screaming, shouting "fuck me what a ride!. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Liemberg 0 #83 November 18, 2004 Quotefirst of all the video probably wouldn't be as good because you wouldn't get all of the angles. You get different angles but that in itself doesn't make worthless video. Besides you have to remember that you can film a BIG portion of the jump (the canopy-ride) that a separate cameraflyer can't, because he's already 1000ft below you. i have attached 2 stills from video's and especially the one named 'bulletcam2' shows this very well... (Would even be better if I really knew what I was doing when reducing pixel size for uploads... ) Quote But most importantly the tandem master is already taking on the responsibility of 2 lives. His own and also the new jumper. I must say that this aspect was of great concern to me and although I played with the idea, I rejected the glove-with-the-camcorder since I want unrestricted use of BOTH hands during a tandemjump. (Should I say period? PERIOD!) However, with a bullet-cam (or lipstick-cam) underneath my altimeter and "the camcorderpart" elsewhere (in my case in a 'skiers bag' on the students belly) I get that; the bulletcam on my left hand doesn't hinder me anymore than the altimeter itself. All the connecting and switching on are done in the plane and can be incorporated in the hook-up sequence. You start hooking up 1000ft earlier and during editing 'throw more film away' but editing is done on the computer and videotape is reusable so there you go... The advantages of the setup seem promising but we have made to few jumps so far to really be able to say where we'll end up with this. In my profile you can see that besides being a tandeminstructor I'm also a DZO. This might make me a bit biased... (C 182: 2 x tandem with video = $$$) "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites fcajump 153 #84 September 30, 2010 OK, 6 years down the road and I notice that we've (internationally) had one double fatal incident that (it was suggested) might have been complicated by a handi-cam and a recent posting of a cutaway that was captured beautifully by a TI who did not want to use his camera hand to sort out line twists. I also notice that most of the Help Wanted ads on DiZzy.com looking for TI's require (or at least want) TI's to use HandiCams. As a former (maybe future) TI, I am curious what the current thinking is on this issue. Fire away... JWAlways remember that some clouds are harder than others... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,384 #85 September 30, 2010 >As a former (maybe future) TI, I am curious what the current thinking is >on this issue. It's been demonstrated that it is indeed a distraction, and has been a factor in a few incidents and one fatality. It also makes money for the DZ, so safety issues will take a back seat unless things get really bad. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites FFAddict 0 #86 October 4, 2010 The risk in doing handcam is just like doing your tandem rating in the first place. If you have the skill and experiance needed then getting a tandem rating is not an unmanagable risk. Likewise if you have the skill and experience needed doing handcam is not an unmanagable risk. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 7 #87 October 4, 2010 QuoteIt's been demonstrated that it is indeed a distraction, and has been a factor in a few incidents and one fatality. Can link to the Fatality or give me some details that would help with the search? I tried to find the fatality and failed."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 4 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
dropzonefool 0 #81 November 18, 2004 I think the way to do this is to use the video from the T-I camera to supplement the original way of shooting video. You know edit both the cameras into one video, I bet the T-I get more of the really important issues like an interview with the passenger after opening, but fails in the landing catagory, and so on Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverjerry 0 #82 November 18, 2004 this debate has been going on for a while now, as a tandemmaster and a camera man i can see both sides of the argument. as a tandem master who has to do handy cam sometimes i dont like it, i dont like having to bring in another element into the skydive, but the dzo asks us to do it so i will use a handycam, but! first is safty so i will do my handle checks! and i will pull left with the handy on and its then a simple job to edit that out. ps i pull left or right but like to make a point somtimes! childish sure but if i have a mal with the handy on i need to know that i can do it. as a camera man (dont get to do so much of that these days) i agrea that the footage i get is way better than handy cam footage (just my oppinion) and by selling a cd full of photo,s i earn a little extra cash. blue skieslife is a journey not to arrive at the grave in a pristine condition but to skid in sideways kicking and screaming, shouting "fuck me what a ride!. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Liemberg 0 #83 November 18, 2004 Quotefirst of all the video probably wouldn't be as good because you wouldn't get all of the angles. You get different angles but that in itself doesn't make worthless video. Besides you have to remember that you can film a BIG portion of the jump (the canopy-ride) that a separate cameraflyer can't, because he's already 1000ft below you. i have attached 2 stills from video's and especially the one named 'bulletcam2' shows this very well... (Would even be better if I really knew what I was doing when reducing pixel size for uploads... ) Quote But most importantly the tandem master is already taking on the responsibility of 2 lives. His own and also the new jumper. I must say that this aspect was of great concern to me and although I played with the idea, I rejected the glove-with-the-camcorder since I want unrestricted use of BOTH hands during a tandemjump. (Should I say period? PERIOD!) However, with a bullet-cam (or lipstick-cam) underneath my altimeter and "the camcorderpart" elsewhere (in my case in a 'skiers bag' on the students belly) I get that; the bulletcam on my left hand doesn't hinder me anymore than the altimeter itself. All the connecting and switching on are done in the plane and can be incorporated in the hook-up sequence. You start hooking up 1000ft earlier and during editing 'throw more film away' but editing is done on the computer and videotape is reusable so there you go... The advantages of the setup seem promising but we have made to few jumps so far to really be able to say where we'll end up with this. In my profile you can see that besides being a tandeminstructor I'm also a DZO. This might make me a bit biased... (C 182: 2 x tandem with video = $$$) "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fcajump 153 #84 September 30, 2010 OK, 6 years down the road and I notice that we've (internationally) had one double fatal incident that (it was suggested) might have been complicated by a handi-cam and a recent posting of a cutaway that was captured beautifully by a TI who did not want to use his camera hand to sort out line twists. I also notice that most of the Help Wanted ads on DiZzy.com looking for TI's require (or at least want) TI's to use HandiCams. As a former (maybe future) TI, I am curious what the current thinking is on this issue. Fire away... JWAlways remember that some clouds are harder than others... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,384 #85 September 30, 2010 >As a former (maybe future) TI, I am curious what the current thinking is >on this issue. It's been demonstrated that it is indeed a distraction, and has been a factor in a few incidents and one fatality. It also makes money for the DZ, so safety issues will take a back seat unless things get really bad. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FFAddict 0 #86 October 4, 2010 The risk in doing handcam is just like doing your tandem rating in the first place. If you have the skill and experiance needed then getting a tandem rating is not an unmanagable risk. Likewise if you have the skill and experience needed doing handcam is not an unmanagable risk. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #87 October 4, 2010 QuoteIt's been demonstrated that it is indeed a distraction, and has been a factor in a few incidents and one fatality. Can link to the Fatality or give me some details that would help with the search? I tried to find the fatality and failed."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
