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GravitysUnion

A couple newbie questions

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So, I've been looking through old threads and trying to organize my plans for the winter. I am unable to follow through with my AFF this summer due to my job. Good news is I have between November and February off. I plan to go south for my AFF in January and stay as long as it takes to get my A license and some extra canopy courses. Until then (November-December) I would like to prepare in a Tunnel. The closest one is in NH. It is still a four hour drive but, it would be feasible for me to spend 2 days a week there.

I did do 20 mins there once before. I worked an 11 hour day drove for 3 hours and didn't perform all that well. I do see how it could be very useful and more fun when I'm not rushing it.

I know people say to get a coach. Now, is that the instructor that is there or, is it someone else that you hire? I would like to make some kind of a plan and have a briefing before going in this time. How would I go about finding a coach if that's the best way to do it?

Also, how do you get the most out of your time by splitting up the mins? I did read about tunnel camps but I didn't see any for the one in New Hampshire....Or, not sure how to find out that info?
Sorry for the novel:P

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I am fairly new to tunnels myself having only one hour in them

You may want to go to specific tunnel facebook pages and study comments customers (frequent flyers) have made on them regarding certain coaches.

Possibly searches here referencing specific tunnels may bring up some comments about excellent coaches.

Somewhere in cyber space I have seen a thorough list of instructors, coaches with detailed lists of all skill levels they have been signed off on but haven't been able to relocate it. I think the listing was somewhere in the Int'l Bodyflight Association info but their web site seems to have changed since my last visit making the info hard to find.

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You definitely want to be well rested and on par getting in the tunnel otherwise its a waste of money. Well fed, well hydrated, and well rested. If your brain isn't getting the appropriate nutrition its simply not going to be as productive in terms of taking in information.

"The instructor that 'is there'", if I understand your emphasis correctly, is the one guarding the door and preparing to spot you if you, for some reason, shoot to high, panic, and come down on your head, for example. He is not a coach unless you hire him as one. At which point he would be in the wind with you and another person would be guarding the door.

My .02 - Tunnel isn't worth much without good (pre and post) briefings and coaching. 15 minute sessions are most productive with a solid briefing beforehand of maneuvres being conducted, setting expectations, how to handle a situation going awry, ask questions, manipulate nervousness, etc. The briefing afterwards for determining what was taken in or why certain things happened and how to push the envelope farther next time.

A good instructor will provide these. A good instructor will never ask you to fly your time non stop (without rotations). A good instructor will give you coaching DURING each rotation. A good instructor will not use your time to fly for his own advantage. A good instructor will explain beforehand what's most common to happen, why it happens, how to identify it, and how to break the habit. Most important... a good instructor is only as good as his student allows him to be (and vice versa) so utilize your "two ears and one mouth" and listen "twice as much as you talk."

I'm certain there's plenty more tunnel experience on here than I and I'm curious to know others viewpoint as well. What's that you were saying about a novel? ^^
Opinion is the medium between knowledge and ignorance.

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Thank you. The instructor that worked for the wind tunnel was in the chamber with me feeding me hand signals.There was just him in the tunnel but, no one guarding the door. I just wasn't sure when people said coach/instructor they were one in the same.

He was very patient with me too, as it was a humbling experience. He did rotate in some children who where there with their parents but, I guess normally this isn't the case. Someone told me you have to bring someone to rotate with which could be tough only because this is something I'm doing for myself.

Next time I go it should be easier though because I know a little more on what to expect. Thank you so very much for your response . This is all helpful considering I know next to nothing haha.

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I coach tunnel flyers, although I am not an employee of a tunnel. A few things that I have observed and experienced, maybe they'll help you.

1. Two shorter sessions per visit are lots better than one longer one. I recommend people get two sessions of ten minutes each (5 x 2 minutes), with about an hour or two break between. You fly some stuff, watch the videos, talk with your coach and think about it a bit, rest a while, then try it again right away. If you don't get the chance to repeat a session again immediately, while the 'feel' is still fresh in your head, much of the effect of the coaching will be lost before you get in the air again.

2. You should mix coached flying and solo flying. Get a coach to walk you through some stuff, then practice that for a while by yourself, until you 'own' it, then go on to more coaching again. If you do all your flying only with a coach, you'll get too dependent on having him with you. If you do all your flying without a coach, you'll spend a lot of time (and money) flailing, trying to figure things out. A good coach will actually recommend that to you. When he recognizes that you've generally got the hang of a certain move, he'll tell you to go practice it on your own, and come back for more coaching when you've got it down, or if you get stuck on something. A coach that wants you to fly with him all the time is more concerned with his own wallet than your flying.

3. Use the spotter when you're solo flying. The guy in the door is your spotter, not your coach. Your coach is in the tunnel with you, the spotter is just there as a safety. But many times the spotter is also an experienced coach, and is generally only glad to help you a bit. For example, when I was learning head-down, there was a period of time when I could fly head-down (somewhat, anyway), but had trouble getting into the position without a reference. I'd ask to spotter to just hold my hand (literally) as I went inverted. It wasn't to keep me stable, but just a reference point, around which to pivot, often more just a finger or two. Wave them in occasionally to fly with you as well. They're often bored, and would just as soon put in a few turns in the air, even with someone less experienced than they are, and you will frequently get a few tips from them as well. If they don't want to fly, they'll just shake their head no. Don't be hurt or upset if that happens, or drill them about it afterwards - maybe they're tired, resting up for something they're going to fly next, don't have their gear on properly for an actual flight, or any number of things that have nothing to do with you. Just go on with your flight, and sometime in the future, don't hesitate to invite them again. I regularly invite the spotter to come in and play with me - sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. It's all good.

4. Swap coaches around. Everyone has a different style, in flying, in teaching, and it's good to get more viewpoints. As a complete beginner, it's probably better to stick with one guy that knows you at first, but as soon as you get reasonably comfortable in the air, and the staff is happy that you're likely not going to hurt yourself, mix it up. Again, a good coach will even recommend that, especially if he sees that you're stuck on something. If he knows that another coach is particularly good at a certain move, he will recommend that you put in a few sessions with the other guy, to move you past the roadblock. If he gets offended that you want to fly with other people as well, he is by definition (mine, anyway) not a good coach. A good coach wants to see you advance, and will recommend whatever it takes to make that happen.

5. Make sure that you understand not only what you are supposed to be doing, but what you are doing wrong. I had a hell of a time getting my head around back layouts, for instance, despite the coach demonstrating it over and over. He'd demonstrate how to do it, and I'd (I thought) follow, except that I continually ended up slamming upside down into the opposite wall. Turns out I WASN'T doing what he demonstrated, and I couldn't spot my own mistakes on the videos. What you THINK you're doing, and what you practice outside may have very little to do with what you actually perform in flight. I now take a fairly brutal approach with students - if I demonstrate a few times and they just can't seem to get it, I grab them and force their body into the proper position. Had one about a month ago, that kept flying with his ass in the air. Signals, videos and bench practice weren't having any effect, so I pushed him down to the net, knelt on his butt and pulled his knees up into an arched body position. Worked - he simply hadn't realized what the position was supposed to feel like in the air. Once I forced him into it, he did fine from then on.

6. Make sure you're rested and relaxed before you fly. If you're tired, on edge or simply have your mind elsewhere, you're not going to get much out of it. Turn off your phone while you're still out in the parking lot and FOCUS!

7. Pay attention to what you're doing, but don't take it too seriously. It's supposed to be fun, after all, and if you're obsessed with your mistakes, you may lose interest in flying, as it just becomes too much like work. Even when I'm working on learning something in particular, I usually beat it up for four turns, then devote the fifth to just playing - head-down carving, swooping down to the net, snake - just basic moves, that I already know how to do, but not really practicing anything in particular.

Welcome to the sport, and have fun.

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This is great advice. I often do get caught up with the mistakes (or what I think are mistakes). I had no idea when I had went that I would start on the net. I thought something was wrong with me but went with it. Sometimes my toes or hand would touch the wall. In my mind these were huge mistakes so I think I got more tense and exhausted.

I'm looking forward to spending more time there now that I know more of what to expect…and what I should expect.

Thank you for your response. The thing I love most in the skydiving community is someone is willing to help you out or, point you in the direction of someone who can.

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GravitysUnion

This is great advice. I often do get caught up with the mistakes (or what I think are mistakes). I had no idea when I had went that I would start on the net. I thought something was wrong with me but went with it. Sometimes my toes or hand would touch the wall. In my mind these were huge mistakes so I think I got more tense and exhausted.

I'm looking forward to spending more time there now that I know more of what to expect…and what I should expect.

Thank you for your response. The thing I love most in the skydiving community is someone is willing to help you out or, point you in the direction of someone who can.


Glad to help - it can be frustrating when you're starting. No, there is nothing wrong with touching the wall or the net. I often intentionally put people on the net at first. They're still flying, with their body carrying most of the load. The net only provides a very small portion of the lift, but gives them a stable reference point, to keep them from wobbling until they get their bearings. You can still turn and move while in contact with the net, but it gives you solid feedback about where you are, and whether and how fast you're moving. Once the coordination and proper control movements are established on the net, only a very small increase in power is needed, and the student is flying at around a meter in height, but in full control, because he learned it all properly while having his belly in contact with the net. There is no need to start high above the net. Quite the opposite - you should increase altitude only after you are fully comfortable with your ability to control every aspect of the type of flying you intend to do during that session. The airflow is the same at all elevations, up to the height where the tunnel starts widening, and extra altitude does not increase anything except your chances of hurting yourself. Same with the wall - your goal should be to fly precisely enough to not need to push off it, and you should be careful of making movements that cause you to strike it hard, but there is nothing wrong with using it to push off, when you are learning a movement and accidentally slide closer than you intended.

The only thing I would caution you about is try to avoid GRABBING the net. It's tempting, but putting your arm down for a grab changes your body position, and may well aggravate the mistake in body position that caused you to want to grab the net in the first place. You can also catch your fingers in the wires and twist or even break them. Fix the problem in your flying - don't try to drop anchor.

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I have a lot of time in the Orlando Tunnel and this all good advice so I won't rehash it other than to say my friend who I skydive with learned in the NH tunnel and recommends you coach with Rob or Tanya - both are very very good. Good luck - you'll get it and it will get easier until you need to learn something new and more advanced (e.g. backfly, RW, etc.). It's a constant growth and challenge, which is why it's so much fun! :) Happy flying!

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corpkid

I have a lot of time in the Orlando Tunnel and this all good advice so I won't rehash it other than to say my friend who I skydive with learned in the NH tunnel and recommends you coach with Rob or Tanya - both are very very good. Good luck - you'll get it and it will get easier until you need to learn something new and more advanced (e.g. backfly, RW, etc.). It's a constant growth and challenge, which is why it's so much fun! :) Happy flying!



Both are good tunnel coaches, but Robbie is now in Houston and Tanya is now in California. I PM'd OP some info so hopefully be seeing in the wind tube soon.

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