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corpkid

We all need to learn about the "burble"

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Broke 2 ribs here... I won't go on about what an idiot this guys was changing the plan up mid fly and sliding into, and then DIVING into my burble. Maybe we wind tunnel folks need to talk about this more. I was just playing around with a 2-way in the tunnel - I had no idea I'd crack two ribs on the outcome.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XY1ZfL6DyIs

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From what I see in the video, there are few lessons to be learned for inexperienced tunnel flyers:
1) Go through more individual stability drills before attempting 2-way in a small tunnel. Be able to hold your spot (both horizontally and vertically) with confidence even if the other person pushes you or steals your air.
2) Unless absolutely necessary, perform 2-way reasonably close to the net and never allow big altitude differences between individual flyers
3) Under all circumstances maintain visual contact with the other person. Throughout the whole video the guy in blue suit rarely watches where the red guy is. Especially when flying with beginners it will be fairly frequent for them to fly into your burble, so you have to be aware of them and avoid if necessary. They may be panicking so do not assume they will avoid you by themselves.
Wish you a speedy recovery!

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corpkid

Broke 2 ribs here... I won't go on about what an idiot this guys was changing the plan up mid fly and sliding into, and then DIVING into my burble. Maybe we wind tunnel folks need to talk about this more. I was just playing around with a 2-way in the tunnel - I had no idea I'd crack two ribs on the outcome.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XY1ZfL6DyIs



Looks more like simple poor flying more than any lack of knowledge. Understanding the dangers of getting in the burble isn't the same as having the skills to stay out of it. Also looks like the "dive" was unintentional.

Tunnels can be dangerous. Sign the waiver and take your chances.;)
Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

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You guys both appear to be pretty inexperienced and somebody fucked up. Is it really necessary to air dirty laundry by calling your partner an idiot on a public forum? Also I agree with cocik that you guys were too high, you should be turning points close to the net so there's less height to fall on each other when somebody burbles :)
edit - I noticed your profile says you have 20 hours of tunnel which means you're an avid tunnel flyer and/or have recently gotten your coach rating. Regardless of which you are doing, you should know by now that it's your responsibility to stay safe when coaching and flying with beginners. You are complicit in your own injury due to your own lack of awareness/reaction and it's kind of classless to come here to blame the beginner.

http://www.mixcloud.com/prajna
http://vimeo.com/avidya

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It is stated "Be able to hold your spot (both horizontally and vertically) with confidence even if the other person pushes you or steals your air. "

I am new to the tunnel (36 minutes) and would appreciate any explanation or guidance on how to maintain a position if one enters my burble or avoid what comes from above if necessary.

I don't plan on going 2 way or sharing the tunnel for quite a while $$$$ but advise here might save others from injuries

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wan2doit

It is stated "Be able to hold your spot (both horizontally and vertically) with confidence even if the other person pushes you or steals your air. "

I am new to the tunnel (36 minutes) and would appreciate any explanation or guidance on how to maintain a position if one enters my burble or avoid what comes from above if necessary.

I don't plan on going 2 way or sharing the tunnel for quite a while $$$$ but advise here might save others from injuries



First of all, don't fly with other beginners unless you guys are under the direct supervision/spotting from an experienced coach (most tunnels will require this anyway). Also have a plan and stick to it and try to do a minimum of improvisation. Even if you are playing follow the leader or something similar, have a rough idea of what you will be doing before entering the tunnel. The worst tunnel accidents I've seen are when multiple people are "messing around" without a plan and end up in each other's airspace at high speeds.

If someone falls into your burble it's probably too late to do anything honestly but by taking proper precautions (e.g. not flying too high off the net) it shouldn't be a big deal and you will laugh about it. The reason the (now deleted) video ends in an injury is because they get way off level with each other which is a no-no.

Also being able to fly extremely close to someone without falling into their burble (or hold your position while people are pushing/pulling on you) is a different skill that you will pick up as you gain experience.
http://www.mixcloud.com/prajna
http://vimeo.com/avidya

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I found this father son video specifically about hopping burbles but can't see any special technique being used to do what they do repeatedly aside from they stay close altitude wise and don't hang around above one another.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2WnAb2_FjQ

Does being way above force the lower flyer down hard to the mat making it difficult to maneuver or is it the air above the lower flyer is seriously disrupted enough to prevent supporting the higher flyer?

Eager and appreciative to learn more.

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The flier below won't notice if someone enters his burble.

The flier above certainly notices. The term burble hopping is accurate, they only stay in the burble of the other person for a split second. During that time they are essentially unsupported as in a regular jump on the ground. (The more space there is between the fliers the less the burble will affect you, you could potentially stay above another flier if you leave a couple of meters in between and try to go as slow as possible)

You'll notice that after passing the burble the flier has to catch himself and break his speed. With experience you can do it without it looking like you were in a burble at all. The people in the video you linked often miss each others burble, but if they do hit it you'll notice them tumbling slightly while stabilizing themselves.

If you try this stay close to the net ;) and of course run it by your instructor before trying it.

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These are couple of good training methods to improve your stability and awareness. They may differ a bit from coach to coach, but they are all following this general guideline:

1) You fly in the center of the tunnel. Coach walks around you and pushes/pulls you (gently, but persistently - the idea is not to hit you). You need to adjust your body position to counteract the force.

2) You fly in the center of the tunnel. Coach walks around you and tries to partially steal your air with his hands below your body. Again, you need to adjust your body position to hold your spot. Later your can fly a bit high (7-8 feet) and let instructor quickly walk below you. It takes a bit of practice but at the end you will realize that it helps you build confidence.

3) Basic 2-way drills. It does not really matter if its grab-360-grab or sidebodies, because the important thing is to learn good RW practices. Each drill needs to be started in a neutral position (center of tunnel at a specified altitude) so if you are off or too high, take your time and get back to neutral. And each drill also has to be started by a confident eye contact (i.e. you get neutral, look at the coach, coach gives you OK, you perform the drill). By doing this you will understand how important it is not to "be all around the place" like the guys in the video.

4) Burble hopping. Once you've established rules about eye contact and being in the correct spot before starting a drill, you can move to the burble hopping classic. You and your coach get to opposing sides of the tunnel one guy is above, the other guy is below and you hop over each other. Apart from learning how to fly through the burble, you should also pay attention to awareness (eye contact, start only when you're ready) and confidence (once you start, you finish your move ASAP, otherwise you will hit each other). Later you can also add modifications like doing 180s or 360s while sliding to understand how your body responds to an uneven burble.

One thing that cannot be easily learned through a drill and which actually needs general experience is understanding how and when to avoid when a beginner gets above you. This only comes with time, but at the end of day you will recognize that something is wrong and the guy is moving over you, so you have to back off a bit or slide to a different spot in the tunnel. Again, eye contact and awareness is the key. If such thing happens, the recommended thing is to stop the current drill, get to the neutral position, get eye contact and restart the drill. This helps "reset" the brain of panicked flyer and put him back on focus.

Again, specific methods can differ from coach to coach, but I hope I gave you some general guidelines. I suggest you discuss them first with the instructors in your tunnel, as they will have much more experience with the particular tunnel type as well as your actual flying skills.

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My "idiot" best friend - well he feels like shit, as he should Nobody here claims to be an expert. I'm just saying that fucking burble caught us up. That was our first RW in the tunnel. That said, I was wrong posting this. I'm gonna re-post the vid for educational purposes. WE sure learned a lot. I'm mending and can't wait to hit the overnight next month. That said - now I am reading all your posts. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeXcERUtY30 (first try)

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Probably more like 17 or so... I'm a slow learner and have a gimp leg (long story)..... LOL And yeah - he got me good. I had ever muscle tightened ready for his "fat ass" to crash on me! LOL He feels like crap about that. And I am not gonna hang it over his head. 1 or 2 months and back at it.

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corpkid

***Didn't like the feedback and lack of sympathy, so he pulled the video. nice.



The video was pulled by my friend's request, dude. It's been reinstated as a learning tool. Nice, eh?

Learning tool, here is some constructive (I hope) feedback.

Orlando is small, but you guys should have plenty of room for flying more cleanly than that. You said you're a slow learner, but part of that might be from poor practice. The saying actually goes, perfect practice makes perfect.

First, slow down. Tunneling for the most part isn't a race. It looks like you guys were just somewhat floundering around taking grips on one another. If it was "just for fun" then well whatever I guess - but you're making a point of training bad habits. It will carry over to your skydiving and other tunnel time. You were racing for the grips as opposed to flying the slots and taking the grips as a secondary action.

Second, it got somewhat better in the second half of the video but I notice in the first half that you guys were yo-yo'ing. Each time you would drop grips you guys would come down, when you picked them up you would go up. This is something that happens in formations in the air as well and most people don't notice it (and it leads to low experienced people going low on formations that have slowed down). Side body grips fly slower, you should be able to take them without going up by compensating with a fall rate correction through arching more, if not you're flying the tunnel faster than neutral and should ask for less airspeed.

You mentioned something about your leg, but you should also still be seeking more "calm" in your flying. Less movement can be more (better flying). You can fly circles in the tunnel just by turning your hands (only your hands).

Starting position (no grips) calm and stable, maintaining even levels 3-4 feet up. Turn to next point position, calm and level and at the same height in the tunnel. Take grips, calm and on level. Let go and move to next point and be patient. All of this requires paying more attention to the walls/surroundings. That might seem kind of stupid but it's half the point of being in a wind tunnel. You can actually see what is happening, make use of it.

3 calm, clean, flown in slot points is far better training than 30 sloppy ones.

Hope this helps you.
~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

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I think my thoughts are along the same lines as a few others where this isn't necessarily one or the others faults. You're probably both at fault since you're both new tunnel flyers (skill wise and not time wise anyway) and got in to attempt this together when you could probably use more time to boost your skills individually before you start flying with some other folks. Maybe I am just a conservative grandma when it comes to this, but I tend to wait a long time before pushing it with other fliers who are around my skill level.

That being said, the Orlando tunnel will eat you up for a second if you get caught in that burble AND you're on the edge where you starve and cut off an engine for a second on top of it. Be comfortable flying in those conditions by yourself. When you have the skills to fly it, you'll be able to fly with other people and keep eye contact with your partner naturally, and move at the drop of a hat without even thinking about it (IE: when somebody gets burbled).
Apologies for the spelling (and grammar).... I got a B.S, not a B.A. :)

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