Wind tunnel light injury

[AriannaDM 0]

Hi guys,
I just registered to this website to ask an opinion about my wind tunnel experience.
Last Saturday I went for the first time to indoor skydiving (I am a skydiver with 90 jumps). I did 3x 1.40 minutes (thus a total of circa 5 minutes) and the day after my arms and neck muscles were hurting as hell. I couldn't lift my arms at all. Today the muscles pain is going a bit better, but I have noticed that the actual problem and source of pain is that my shoulder articulation doesn't feel right (as if the shoulder would come out) and it is noisy for every small movement.

Is it possible that I semi-dislocated my shoulder or something like that just by taking 5 minutes of wind tunnel?? I never had shoulder injuries before, not a single problem.

I will rest today, and if tomorrow it doesn't get better I'll go to the doctor.

Thanks in advance for any advice,
Arianna

[uhuru10 0]

FWIW:

During the course of regular skydiving, you expose yourself to relative wind resistance for ~40-60 seconds. Your muscles quickly develop to handle this 'short-term' loading.

In the tunnel, even broken sessions of 1:40 (100 seconds) greatly increase the load experienced on muscles and therefore have a more pronounced impact on soreness/muscle fatigue.

I won't venture to say that this is simply how 5 minutes of combined freefall at one time would effect you, but having a doctor check it out if things worsen or linger isn't out of the question.

[AriannaDM 0]

Thanks a lot for your reply, that reassures me a bit.
Thing is, I was prepared for the unbelievable muscles pain, but this noise in the shoulder joints and the feeling of not being able to move them made me worry a little bit.
I'll see how it goes in the next few days, for today I am stuck in bed because of the incredible twinges.

Thanks again!

[adamUK 3]

Two friends of mine have suffered minor nerve damage which has limited their mobility for perhaps 4 weeks or so due to overarching during tunnel flight. It might be that too. Particularly if you're feeling numbness. It heals up in time though.

Ad.

[AriannaDM 0]

Thanks Adam!
Day 4: pain in the neck and back has started healing, whereas I am still unable to move my arms...especially the left one, I think there might be a problem with some nerve or ligament indeed because it feels too strange (yes, I think numbness is the right word). Besides, I injured that arm in a landing a couple of years ago...it was nothing too serious, but it took a while and a lot of physiotherapy before ligaments, tendons and muscles completely recovered, and that could be the reason why the arm has been affected by the tunnel so much.
Well, at least today I can stand up, whereas yesterday was even worse than the day before

I definitely think I have to do some fitness training before I enter a wind tunnel again...

[adamUK 3]

It might not necessarily be a strength/fitness thing, both Liz and Martin are very fit people. It might be a case of overstretching. Are you particularly flexible or hypermobile?

Heal fast

[ianyapxw 0]

Do you know exactly how this happened? I'm a regular tunnel flyer myself, and I'm not aware that such injuries existed till just now.

Could it be a flexibility issue, or excessive flying that caused it?

edit: To OP, get well soon!

[adagen 0]

It's not unknown for someone new to the tunnel to make a grab for the edge of the door when exiting, rather than flying right up to it. That can result in shoulder strain.

Anne

[ianyapxw 0]

As a tip, I would suggest not flying to the door, but trying to fly through the door. Only reach and grab the door when it's in line with your head.

This avoids the common mistake of reaching to grab and flying backwards, or worse, reaching to grab and playing tug-of-war with yourself

[AriannaDM 0]

yes, I am pretty flexible, so overstretching might be the cause...besides, what I found particularly hard in the tunnel was the fact that I had to engage my arms much more than I normally do in free fall: because I don't do much RW, I am used to keep my arms relaxed and wide open, and in the tunnel you can't do that so the instructor was trying to make me keep them in a position that didn't feel natural to me.
And as I don't have much strength in my arms and shoulders + I had this arm injury some time ago, I guess it was just too much for me and my left arm...

[AriannaDM 0]

see above...
after a few days I think I can say that the problem was mainly my old injury at the left arm: the rest of the body feels much better now, but I still feel some numbness in that arm, the muscles are completely contracted and the articulations are still noisy (well, the last one could also be because I haven't moved it for 5 days). And it hurts, but it is better than yesterday
Anyway one thing is sure: for the first time in the tunnel, it was definitely too much flying for me!

[AriannaDM 0]

adagen

It's not unknown for someone new to the tunnel to make a grab for the edge of the door when exiting, rather than flying right up to it. That can result in shoulder strain.

That's also true, especially in the last session I had to crawl toward the door before the time expired because I couldn't make it anymore...I am pretty that the way I grabbed the door was not the proper one, he he

ianyapxw thanks for the suggestion!

and thanks to all of you for the help, next time I go to the tunnel I'll let you know if it works better!

[ianyapxw 0]

Most welcome!

Wait, would your previous injury happen to be frozen shoulder? I'm asking because my mom had frozen shoulder, and she's plannning to go from no flying to tunnel camp for a variety of reasons.

[jumpgump 0]

I'm grounded right now at Skydive Perris because of a tunnel injury. I purchased "jump insurance" there before I retested on AFF 7. This means that before the jump the instructor and I go to the tunnel for 10 minutes of one-on-one. I've spent quite a bit of time in that tunnel, so 10 minutes was nothing new. I am in good health and exercise strenuously 6 days per week. None of that mattered or matters now.

This is what I mean. When I was in the tunnel I didn't notice that one of the tunnel staff came walking in around behind me while I was in "flight." I'm looking at my instructor who is standing outside of the door following his hand signals. The tunnel staff employee grabbed my leg and arm causing me to lose stability big-time. I ended up crashing into the wall into my shoulder landing upside down. The tunnel was turned off and I was helped to my feet. I was pushed outisde, but I pushed back because I wanted to continue training. I laid on the screen until they turned it back on. I continued on and exhausted my 10 minutes. I was in pain, but kept going. Big mistake.

Tunnel time is done and now it's time to get on the aircraft and do it for real. The AFF instructor told me on the walk back to the school that I need to "stand down." What the.....? We get back to the school and he has me sit outside while he goes in the office and talks with the chief instructor and school director. Ten minutes later they call me in the office and sit me down. The AFF instructor told them what happened in the tunnel, and that I was making "painful looks" on my face while in flight. I was now grounded. There would be no jumping or any other training until I came back with a doctor's note. The DZ is a 520 mile round trip for me, so I wasn't very happy.

Three weeks later I go to my doctor. I asked him to give me a note so I can go back to skydiving. He laughs in my face. He didn't want to put his name on any paper going into a file at a skydiving school. I went back down to Perris and tried to get around this, and they aren't budging on the deal. My last two jumps were Christmas Eve....and the clock is still ticking.

All this because of the wind tunnel and a staff person grabbing me for some unknown reason. My shoulder aches a little bit, but it doesn't stop me from doing pullups and pushups with a 60 lb. pack on my back. Perris doesn't care. It's all about the liability. They don't want the liability and neither does the doctor. If I bounce because I couldn't pull my reserve handle due to a bumb shoulder, I know the school wants to show the coroner that note from the doctor, and that doctor doesn't want anyone calling him.

Watch out in the wind tunnel. It's not just the powerful air being generated on the body, it's also things like I described above that can put you out of business even after you are healed up. If you're injured, keep it to yourself if you can and go home for the day. If the DZ staff find out about it, you might find yourself grounded too. It may be different for experienced jumpers, but for students like me, it's the end unless one is wanting to go to another school and start all over again.

[ianyapxw 0]

I'm sorry to hear about your case and hope you can get back in the skies.

Why do you say you have an injury if you can do pull ups and push ups without problem?

[jumpgump 0]

ianyapxw

I'm sorry to hear about your case and hope you can get back in the skies.

Why do you say you have an injury if you can do pull ups and push ups without problem?

Skydive Perris says I have a wind tunnel injury even though I say I don't any longer. I guess that's my point - it's what the skydiving center in the end says - not the jumper. I hurt my shoulder; I gave it rest and rehab for a little while, and I thought I would be good-to-go...no go.

The day after my doctor laughed in my face and wouldn't give me a note, I went down to Perris stupidly thinking that maybe I could convince them that they didn't need this note. I could have done cartwheels, pushups, and pullups to demonstrate; it wouldn't have mattered. What matters is that doctor's note. I left there and walked right over to the wind tunnel and did 10 minutes. The next day I drove to Eloy and did 10 minutes in their wind tunnel and 3 tandem jumps to check my shoulder in real flight - no problem. This may be something you want to do when and if you think you are ready to get back into it (tunnel for a couple flights or a tandem jump).

This may not have been the best thread to post what I have said, but it was tunnel injury related (old injury). I'm just putting this out there because I'm sure I'm not the first to experience this, and there will probably be somebody after me that has a mishap in the tunnel and it could put them out of business in their AFF program.

[ianyapxw 0]

Thanks for the sharing.

However, if your shoulder injury is not 'certified' by a doctor, I'm sure you can just go to another DZ where they don't know your name, and continue your AFF. You technically don't have any history of arm injuries.

[NWPoul 1]

jumpgump

This is what I mean. When I was in the tunnel I didn't notice that one of the tunnel staff came walking in around behind me while I was in "flight." I'm looking at my instructor who is standing outside of the door following his hand signals. The tunnel staff employee grabbed my leg and arm causing me to lose stability big-time. I ended up crashing into the wall into my shoulder landing upside down

That's sounds weird do you have a video of this?
P/S Good luck on your AFF progression

Why drink and drive, if you can smoke and fly?

[BigBUG 0]

I can't say anything about doctors, DZ management etc.
As a fellow tunnel instructor, I could not imagine any reason for spotter (staff instructor in the tunnel) to grab you before you actually lost control.
You said that your AFFI was in the door outside - that means he is not allowed to spot. Our (and I believe IBA's) rules requires spotter to be inside in that case.

And I could agree that there was mistake in spotting - you shouldn't be injured in such a simple spot. It is impossible to give 100% insurance when you spot for advance maneuvers and bruises are quite regular thing (especially when you start dynamic :), but if you just flying belly down low over net, you shouldn't be hurt. But I still do not believe in spotter who just brings you down without reason, sorry. What could happen is that you have shown some intention to loose stability (what is usually quite obvious for spotters) and he just didn'y make the spot the best way he could.

Sorry again, but without a video it's only an assumption.
BR, Boris

[BigBUG 0]

damn you are faster
go back in the tunnel and work!
:)

[LyraM45 0]

BigBUG

I could not imagine any reason for spotter (staff instructor in the tunnel) to grab you before you actually lost control.

^This.^ I'm not an instructor, but have spent enough time around new tunnel people when I worked the front desk of a tunnel and enough time flying in one as a customer to know that instructors just don't grab you and tank you for no reason. More than likely you were about to go out of control anyway and he was trying to spot you. You may have felt like you were fine and it seems like he's responsible for grabbing you out of nowhere and causing what happened, but more than likely you just don't know what you don't know on this one. Sometimes spots don't work out, especially if people tense up, ball up, and react in some way and makes them crash to the wall/ground even faster-- and that is totally a natural to do as a new flyer. These things happen, especially when you're new to the sport and the tunnel.

I'll echo a few others-- have video of what happened? We're all just making a logical assumption of what happened, but who knows, maybe there was an oddball mistake and we're assuming wrong. Regardless, hope you feel better and get back in the tunnel to try again soon!

Apologies for the spelling (and grammar).... I got a B.S, not a B.A. :)

[adagen 0]

ianyapxw

As a tip, I would suggest not flying to the door, but trying to fly through the door. Only reach and grab the door when it's in line with your head.

This avoids the common mistake of reaching to grab and flying backwards, or worse, reaching to grab and playing tug-of-war with yourself

For a tunnel newbie who hasn't got used to the sudden drop, aiming to fly through the door could result in a pretty hard landing. I've seen quite a few people land in a heap as a result of being out of the wind before they expected it. Flying TO the door before gripping is the advice I've always heard. Once people are used to the tunnel, they may find refinements useful, but a tunnel newbie needs to develop a bit of understanding first.

Anne

[jumpgump 0]

ianyapxw

Thanks for the sharing.

However, if your shoulder injury is not 'certified' by a doctor, I'm sure you can just go to another DZ where they don't know your name, and continue your AFF. You technically don't have any history of arm injuries.

Yes, I could do that. I really like Perris and wanted to finish there. I'm already driving 520 miles round trip to Perris. Elsinore is only another 11 miles. San Diego farther down the road. I'm leaving for Florida for a week to do static line jumps at the paratrooper reunion. When I get back I'm going to try one more time with my doc and see if he will give me that note. If not, I guess I'll have to go somewhere else. I'm considering going to Georgia or Florida and starting all over again. Two places over there have "A license in a week programs" for very cheap prices. I could fly over there, stay in the bunkhouse or even a hotel and still come out cheaper than going to southern California.

I hope your injury heals up quickly and you can get back in the tunnel. I apologize for hijacking this thread with all this. I thought it was related and just wanted to put it out there for another newbie like myself to be better informed when he or she heads to the tunnel.

[jumpgump 0]

LyraM45

I'll echo a few others-- have video of what happened? We're all just making a logical assumption of what happened, but who knows, maybe there was an oddball mistake and we're assuming wrong. Regardless, hope you feel better and get back in the tunnel to try again soon!

No, unfortunately I don't. The "jump insurance" purchased at the AFF school for 10 minutes in the tunnel doesn't include a DVD. It should be for what the whole thing costs. I've always been given a DVD copy of my tunnel time. I was told that everything is recorded in the tunnel regardless if the student pays or requests a DVD. I should have gotten one before I left. That was another mistake on my part.

In the end, I am not blaming the tunnel staff or really anyone at Perris for any of this. I love the place; the instruction I have received there has been outstanding. What happened was probably due to me as was pointed out by another poster. The tunnel staff know more about what they are doing than I do. I'm a newbie with all of this. It just happened. I guess this is why we sign our lives away with waivers at the tunnel and the DZ in case something happens. It's a dangerous activity. I'll just have to figure out what I'm going to do from here.

Thank you all for your insights and observations. Again, I'm sorry for hijacking this thread with all of this detail. I thought what happened to me was related to the topic posted by the original poster. The point I wanted to make to another newbie like myself who is going to the tunnel are the words I was taught at infantry school:

Stay alert - stay alive!

[AriannaDM 0]

No, the injury involved only tendons, ligaments and muscles around the elbow. I landed on my side and blacked out on how to do emergency landing...instead, I put my left arm between me and the ground and overstretched it. Because my elbows are hyper-flexible I didn't break anything, but it took 3 months before I could move the arm properly again. It could be that the shoulder suffered from the landing too without me realizing it.