To get coached, or to not get coached.

[cashflow 0]

Well I started skydiving in early June and I have 13 jumps, about 4 minutes of FF time (Levels 1-3 of AFF, the rest through GFF) and I am having issues with turns. More specifically, I can't seem to stop them and I get pretty unstable during/initiating them.

It first started on Level 3 of my AFF and has followed me to my 15 second delays in GFF. My instructor looked at my arch on the ground and he said that my right shoulder is naturally lower. He said to try and balance it out but when I tried again I still had issues (I basically over corrected and spun left for 10 seconds before pulling). Since that jump I went to the chiropractor and she confirmed I was out of alignment and made some adjustments.

I haven't jumped since and now I have the chance to go to the wind tunnel at Niagara falls next month. My goal is to work on a relaxed arch and practice starting and stopping turns so I can move on to the next GFF level (might try and do some jumps at Skydive Toronto while I am out that way). They have a 5 flight coached package there for $325 or there is the option of 5 minutes alone in the tunnel for $100 and an additional 3 minutes with a group for $45.

My question for you experts then is if you think I can accomplish what I want to for about half the money? I know I'd gain more from the coaching but I feel 8 minutes should be enough time to figure things out. Since I have no experience though I figured I would see what you all have to say. Thanks for your advice.

[Bignugget 0]

I approached it like swimming and golf.

Could I learn to swim well without coaching? Probably.

Could I learn to play golf well without coaching? Maybe.


Are those good ideas?

I didn't think so.


Id go with (and have 6 hours of) coached tunnel.

I couldn't imagine trying to teach myself, the learning curve would drive me insane.


That being said, nearly $200 for 10 minutes of coaching, plus the tunnel time? That seems pretty steep, maybe call and see what kind of other deals they have. I pay $200/hour for a (world class) coach, so 5x that seems a bit steep.


ETA: I just realized you were asking for EXPERT opinions.

Mine is not expert, but it is an opinion.

[cashflow 0]

Haha I value your opinion none the less.

I emailed them asking what my option was best and they said,
"A coaching package will require about one hour of your time and gives you 15 mins of flight time in the tunnel."
So I replied asking if the price is the same as the 5 flight package they list on their website.

I know that there will at least be an instructor holding/guiding me if I go the cheaper route which is why I question if the extra cash will really be worth it (after all saving $180 gets me two GFF jumps and a case of beer at my home DZ).

[Sadist 0]

Coached? Yes, absolutely.
Worth every dollar.

Just my 2c.

[bob.dino 0]

You would be completely and utterly nuts to not get coaching.


Do as much tunnel as you can afford. If you have the cash+time, you might find that an hour over 2/3 days works out significantly cheaper per flying minute.

[cashflow 0]

Unfortunately I only have about a 3-4 hour window to do this.

I'm leaning towards the coaching as I think I can accomplish a lot in 15 minutes, and hopefully it will work out to savings in the long run as I will be less likely to have to redo any coached jumps etc.

I guess I will decide the morning of since they said you don't need reservations.

[FreeFallFiend 0]

I use this quote all the time:

"I play the guitar, I taught myself how to play the guitar, which was a bad decision... because I didn't know how to play it, so I was a shitty teacher. I would never have went to me." - Mitch Hedberg

Can you learn something on your own? Absolutely. Is it going to be the best, fastest, most efficient, and cost effective? Absolutely not.

Fiend

I am about to take my last voyage, a great leap in the dark. - Thomas Hobbes.

[cashflow 0]

FreeFallFiend

I use this quote all the time:

"I play the guitar, I taught myself how to play the guitar, which was a bad decision... because I didn't know how to play it, so I was a shitty teacher. I would never have went to me." - Mitch Hedberg

Can you learn something on your own? Absolutely. Is it going to be the best, fastest, most efficient, and cost effective? Absolutely not.

It probably comes as no surprise then to know that I taught myself how to play guitar haha.

[NWFlyer 2]

cashflow

***I use this quote all the time:

"I play the guitar, I taught myself how to play the guitar, which was a bad decision... because I didn't know how to play it, so I was a shitty teacher. I would never have went to me." - Mitch Hedberg

Can you learn something on your own? Absolutely. Is it going to be the best, fastest, most efficient, and cost effective? Absolutely not.

It probably comes as no surprise then to know that I taught myself how to play guitar haha.

Yeah, but it cost you way less.

My theory on tunnel time is that the marginal cost of adding good coaching on top of the time you're paying for the tunnel is worth every penny since you get so much more value out of that tunnel time.

Also, depending on how you're booking your tunnel time, you can often get as good a rate from a coach that includes the coaching than you could buying it at "street prices" since the coaches are able to get more favorable rates for the tunnel time itself.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[cashflow 0]

From what everyone has said I definitely see the value of a coach now, which is why I will end up getting one. I was just originally under the impression that I'd be able to figure my turns and everything else out once I got in there. However, thanks to you folks, I got a nice dose of reality (unless you all secretly work at their and are hustling me for cash...) haha.

I won't know until I get there though if I can get any sort of deals as I live about 3000km away from the tunnel and have no personal contacts. Either way I will report back in August how it all goes.

[NWFlyer 2]

cashflow

I won't know until I get there though if I can get any sort of deals as I live about 3000km away from the tunnel and have no personal contacts. Either way I will report back in August how it all goes.

Where do you live? Is that your closest tunnel? Sure there's not something closer than 3000 km away?

There can also be a benefit to uncoached time ... to work on the stuff that your coach taught you. But really, you'll get a ton of value out of working with a coach. (And no, I don't work for the tunnel... I just throw a lot of money at my local tunnel on a regular basis)

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[cashflow 0]

Well technically speaking where I "live" is closer to the tunnel in Seattle. I may end up going there in the fall/winter, or road tripping to Arizona or Cali, to work on some things once I get my solo and hopefully my A.

However, I work away from home for two weeks at a time and I will be in Ontario for my next set of days off so the tunnel in Niagara is my best bet until September.

[Remster 24]

Quote

tunnel in Niagara

What kind of tunnel is that????

Remster

[artard 0]

Looks like the same type as the tunnel in vegas.

Those rates seem really high, have you tried asking someone at your drop zone if there are better rates you can get if you book directly through an instructor? Skyventure tunnels charge much higher rates for non-skydivers and first timers who book their "first time package" but I have no idea if it's similar at this place.

http://www.mixcloud.com/prajna
http://vimeo.com/avidya

[cashflow 0]

artard

Looks like the same type as the tunnel in vegas.

Those rates seem really high, have you tried asking someone at your drop zone if there are better rates you can get if you book directly through an instructor? Skyventure tunnels charge much higher rates for non-skydivers and first timers who book their "first time package" but I have no idea if it's similar at this place.

http://www.niagarafreefall.com/freefall/

Sadly my home DZ is 3000+km away from the tunnel so any friendly discounts are out the window. I would love to go iFly Seattle (closer to where I actually live) but that isn't feasible for now. I'll see if I can negotiate with them once I show up though.

[BKW82 0]

cashflow

***Looks like the same type as the tunnel in vegas.

Those rates seem really high, have you tried asking someone at your drop zone if there are better rates you can get if you book directly through an instructor? Skyventure tunnels charge much higher rates for non-skydivers and first timers who book their "first time package" but I have no idea if it's similar at this place.

http://www.niagarafreefall.com/freefall/

Sadly my home DZ is 3000+km away from the tunnel so any friendly discounts are out the window. I would love to go iFly Seattle (closer to where I actually live) but that isn't feasible for now. I'll see if I can negotiate with them once I show up though.

Dude, that tunnel looks fucking awful... don't waste your money. You're not going to learn how to fly your body in there, only how to fly a trash bag that will be flying you.

[cashflow 0]

BKW82

Dude, that tunnel looks fucking awful... don't waste your money. You're not going to learn how to fly your body in there, only how to fly a trash bag that will be flying you.

HAHA thanks for making my morning! I don't really have a choice, it's that tunnel or nothing (for now), and I really need to work on some stuff before getting back in the sky. I'll try and make sure they put me in a suit that is less trash baggy though

[Remster 24]

Where are you?

Remster

[adamUK 3]

+1 for the guy who said don't go to that tunnel. What do you hope to learn in a baggy suit?

[cashflow 0]

Remster

Where are you?

I'll be in Ontario, and I might go to Montreal if I can convince my friends (I don't live in the area so I am at the mercy of what they feel like doing). If they're up for it though I will hit up the tunnel there.

If I don't go when I'm out there I won't be near a tunnel (and when I say near I mean 5+ hours away in Seattle) until September.

[Remster 24]

cashflow

***Where are you?

I'll be in Ontario, and I might go to Montreal if I can convince my friends (I don't live in the area so I am at the mercy of what they feel like doing). If they're up for it though I will hit up the tunnel there.

If I don't go when I'm out there I won't be near a tunnel (and when I say near I mean 5+ hours away in Seattle) until September.

When you're in Ontario, hook up with other jumpers. There are plenty of people going to Montreal for training on very regular basis. Don't waste your money on serious amounts of time in the Niagara tunnel. If you're there, have fun for 2 minutes, but it's not a tunnel that's conducive to training.

Remster

[cashflow 0]

Remster

******Where are you?

I'll be in Ontario, and I might go to Montreal if I can convince my friends (I don't live in the area so I am at the mercy of what they feel like doing). If they're up for it though I will hit up the tunnel there.

If I don't go when I'm out there I won't be near a tunnel (and when I say near I mean 5+ hours away in Seattle) until September.

When you're in Ontario, hook up with other jumpers. There are plenty of people going to Montreal for training on very regular basis. Don't waste your money on serious amounts of time in the Niagara tunnel. If you're there, have fun for 2 minutes, but it's not a tunnel that's conducive to training.

I wish I could do that but I only have a week (and I don't know any jumpers out in the area) and my friends would rather do tandems then anything indoors. I'm going to try my best though at convincing my buddy that Montreal would be worth while. Strippers, poutine, maybe a little tunnel time, give me one reason why you wouldn't want to!?

[frogerina 0]

I am NO expert!! I have just done my Category B jump (again -- read n00b!) BUT...after a just-for-fun tandem that led to a less-than-stellar Category A jump, my AFFI suggested tunnel time. I posted a similar question, and the folks here who know what they're talking about (I hope to be one of those someday...) said coaching was such an important part of the picture.

They were right. I grabbed all my pennies, nickels, and got myself to a tunnel camp. (Is that an option with your schedule? Although still pricey, it was a better deal than paying for straight tunnel time + coaching.) Today, my Cat B jump (I know -- just the beginnings....but this was a totally foreign world to me!) went really well. I totally credit the careful, specific coaching I received and the time to be able to really work on muscle memory with a coach whose sole job was to help me figure out what I needed to learn, and how best to pull it off. My coaching included pre-flight planning/teaching, and then immediate post-tunnel video review and debrief. So helpful to be able to see for myself what was going on (haven't found anyone willing to jump a mirror with me yet...) and have experienced eyes tell me how to go about learning/fixing.

I hope you are able to plan the perfect trip.

[dcfreefly 0]

I live in Ontario and work about 15 minutes away from the Niagara Tunnel quite often - sometimes, I stay in the hotel directly across the street and literally could walk for 60 seconds and be there. I make lots of cash and am not shy to spend it on random shit. Point is, I would not spend a dime on that thing.

My home tunnel currently is Montreal.

If for some reason I couldn't go to Montreal and my options were either Niagara or no tunnel, I would choose no tunnel.

Save your cash for when you'll be flying in Seattle.

If you're planning to be in the area often in the near future, there is a tunnel currently under construction in Oakville, about 45 minutes or so from Niagara. The projected opening date is November/December. All of the components are currently onsite, and the foundation/footings have recently been poured.

Regarding coaching, absolutely get it. It's invaluable.

[3mpire 0]

Quote

I would love to go iFly Seattle (closer to where I actually live) but that isn't feasible for now.

When you're in the Seattle area, you should call the tunnel ahead of time and see if they have any jumper specials going on. Sometimes they have better rates for jumpers during certain hours or certain days of the week. It is subject to change, though:

[email protected] or
206 456 8609

If you're looking for basic belly flying I know several coaches that are excellent for establishing good belly flying habits early on. Also if you're on facebook, there is a group local and visiting flyers use to share time or learn about visiting coaches and stuff. PM me if you want more info on that