FlyNY 0 #1 January 3, 2013 Moderator's note: in favor of contributing to the greater good of skydivers in the NY area, the thread stays. Please be aware that the link below, in addition to general information about the tunnel, contains a solicitation for investment of start-up capital in exchange for tunnel flight discounts. Investments are made at your own risk. General conversations about the business investment opportunity are OK; individual transactions are not. I have some friendly advice of my own, posted in a reply below. - - slotperfect A new wind tunnel is in the works for New York City! http://www.FlyNY.net Please help spread the word! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skinnay 0 #2 January 4, 2013 1.2 mil is about enough to get you a one bedroom apartment in NYC. And no where near what you will need to build a tunnel. Offering 5 minutes a day for life for $5000 is proof your business model is complete is garbage. But good luck with your fantasy bro! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr_Polite 0 #3 January 4, 2013 LOL! 1.2 mill won't even break ground in NYC. I can put you in contact with a guy in Nigeria who will send you a very large check for more than you're asking. All you need to do is send him a check for the extra money he sent. Sound good? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SEREJumper 1 #4 January 4, 2013 Per your link: Our Pledge To You Every dollar contributed through this campaign will go toward funding the FlyNY project. If, for any reason, we are unable to go forward with the project, every contribution at and above the $250 level will be refunded pro rata. So your gonna keep my $100 if this does nothing...um, no thanks.We're not fucking flying airplanes are we, no we're flying a glorified kite with no power and it should be flown like one! - Stratostar Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bignugget 0 #5 January 4, 2013 Well if I understand the site correctly. You don't actually lose any money until they raise the 1.2 million in pledges. When that happens I guess they get the 1.2 million and all the pledges get cashed in. Maybe what he means is that after that if they can't get going the people pledging over $250 will get their money back.....but either way the site says nothing happens for another 1.99 million dollars in pledges I think your $100 is safe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpnfrek 0 #6 January 4, 2013 It is amazing how cynical people can be when someone is putting everything on the line to start an Indoor Skydiving attraction and how many Monday morning “experts” think they have this business figured out. The platform this guy is using is a crowd funding site, which now allows people to help a startup company by contributing small amounts of money. The Jobs Act now allows for the non rich to help these companies through these sites. If his goal of 1.2 mil is not met he gets nothing and contributors get charged nothing. The 1.2 mil is obviously not the total amount he needs, it may be the amount he needs to secure a loan or finish his funding that may already be in place. The simple fact is that these tunnels are not geared toward skydivers; the majority of the revenue comes from the existing public who wants the thrill but do not have the balls to jump. Sorry to tell you, but these tunnels are not dependant on you the skydiving community as much as you would like them to be. Rather than criticize the man or any other for that matter for trying to get one started, help them by spreading the word supporting them, and soon you may find a tunnel in your area so you can show off your “Sky God Mentality”. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FlyNY 0 #7 January 4, 2013 Thank you jumpnfrek for your help and your vote of confidence! And thanks to everyone else for your comments. While they are negative, they are helpful in letting us know what deters people from contributing to the cause. To answer your questions: * 1.2 Million is definitely not enough to build a tunnel. It is only 12% of the total project cost. * 1.2 Million is the bare minimum fundraising goal. If that goal is not met, not a single credit card is charged and the entrepreneur gets nothing. However, the fundraise is not limited to 1.2 Million. There is no limit to how high it can go before the allotted times runs out. * The remainder of the money will come from loans and private investments. * 5 minutes a day for life for a $5000 investment is a fair reward for someone willing to make a substantial investment in a start up business. * The commitment to refund investments of over $250 was made on the assumption that there would be thousands of smaller investments and fewer large ones. If the 1.2 Million goal is not reached, no one will be charged. But if the goal is reached and the business cannot go forward (for whatever reason) refunds would have to be made manually. It would be a daunting task to refund tens of thousands of small contributions. But perhaps we will drop that threshold down to $100. * Please understand that even if ultimately the business does not materialize, there will be huge start up expenses regardless. The purpose of this fundraise is to raise start up funds. The way crowd funding works is people contribute money to help a business take off, realizing that it may not, and they risk losing their contribution. That is why the rewards offered are so generous. * Jumpnfrek is absolutely right in that the bulk of the revenue will come from non-skydivers. Folks who are too afraid to jump out of an airplane, and just want a fun, safe ride. HOWEVER, no one appreciates these tunnels more than skydivers, who crave tunnel time to hone their free fall skills. That is why we're appealing to the skydiver community for contributions and investments. Tunnel time will be hugely discounted for skydivers as opposed to first time flyers. The tunnel size will be geared toward skydivers as opposed to recreational flyers. Large blocks of time will be set aside for skydivers only. * And to address all concerns of losing money or investing large sums into something that you feel may never materialize, we have created the $10 and $20 dollar levels of contribution. By contributing $10 you risk nothing, yet you're making a huge difference and helping bring a much needed and overdue wind tunnel to the area. If every skydiver in the area contributed as little as $10, we'd be in great shape. * So please keep the comments coming (both positive and negative). Your criticism will help us improve the campaign. AND PLEASE TAKE A CHANCE AND PITCH IN $10 (or more) AND HELP US SPREAD THE WORD. Thank you! FlyNY Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skinnay 0 #8 January 4, 2013 Since you're an expert, can you please explain how he will turn a profit when 200 people contribute $5000 and then fly 5 minutes each for life? If you can't do the math, he's obligated to run the tunnel for free for more than 16 hours a day for life. And yes, 1.2mil might not be the total amount needed, but its so far from what the cost would be that its obvious he has no real backers. Imagine someone saying "I'm almost done building a space ship but just need $1000 more dollars please help me!". And aside from all that, the guy has no details at all, just stolen photos, and no credentials as a tunnel flyer. If you have real info as to why this isn't a scam or joke, I'd love to hear it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FlyNY 0 #9 January 4, 2013 Dear skinnay, The business plan is three years in the making. The research is extensive and thorough and the numbers work. As mentioned in our previous post, 1.2 Million is only 12% of the total project cost. The remainder will come from private investments and loans. The videos and photos are all obtained from tunnel manufacturers and are all used with explicit permission. None are stolen. The founder is an experienced skydiver and tunnel flyer (who has always found the skydiving community to be very friendly and supportive). FlyNY Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skinnay 0 #10 January 4, 2013 I'd be curious to know the following: Can you provide any details on the business plan? What exact area are you looking to build the tunnel in and has land been purchased? Do you have permits to build the tunnel? How have you resolved issues with the city and noise? What are the specs on the tunnel? Are you franchising an existing tunnel or starting from scratch? can you provide details or credentials of the members involved? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FlyNY 0 #11 January 4, 2013 Most of the information you are asking for is proprietary and will not be openly disclosed in a public forum, but is readily available to serious investors who sign a non-disclosure and non-compete agreement. But this level of information is not necessary to pitch in $10-$20. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skinnay 0 #12 January 4, 2013 So you can't even tell us whether its a 10/12/14 foot tunnel? or who you're franchising from? this is 'proprietary'?? You say "the numbers work", but can you explain how you intend to find real estate and finance construction on this budget? land big enough for a tunnel will cost you at least 30 million. Or how you are gonna fly 200 people for 5 minutes for free for life? I would love to have this explained :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FlyNY 0 #13 January 4, 2013 "The tunnel size will be geared toward skydivers as opposed to recreational flyers." That automatically means at least a 14 foot tunnel. The rest of the information is confidential at this time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skinnay 0 #14 January 4, 2013 Quote"The tunnel size will be geared toward skydivers as opposed to recreational flyers." That automatically means at least a 14 foot tunnel. The rest of the information is confidential at this time. Oh, I'm sorry I was not able to guess the specs of your tunnel from "geared towards skydivers" haha. It doesn't seem like you know anything about tunnels or have any plan to actually build this. So I assume this is just a scam to walk away with the money if you get it over the threshold. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FlyNY 0 #15 January 4, 2013 Thank you for your input. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
michalm21 0 #17 January 4, 2013 QuoteAnytime bro. I agree. 10Mil in NYC sounds like a scam, unless it's NJ or Long Island/Upstate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FlyNY 0 #18 January 4, 2013 Please do some research before you label someone's three year long project and dream "a scam". You can all risk $10-$20 and possibly have a 14-foot recirculating tunnel to play in day and night, year-round, in all weather, or you can label it "a scam" and keep driving to New Hampshire and hibernating in the winter. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hillson 0 #19 January 4, 2013 QuotePlease do some research before you label someone's three year long project and dream "a scam". You can all risk $10-$20 and possibly have a 14-foot recirculating tunnel to play in day and night, year-round, in all weather, or you can label it "a scam" and keep driving to New Hampshire and hibernating in the winter. Or I could get some more info and then consider whether to send money thereby mitigating some of the "risk." And hopefully not be insulted by the person seeking money. In all likelihood I'm just going to drive an hour to Orlando like I always do and feel somewhat bad for my northern brothers for having to put up with this boooolshit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #20 January 4, 2013 Okay, here's an opinion from someone who lives about as far away from NY as possible while still being in the continental US (and thus I've got no dog in this fight - I already have a tunnel 20 minutes down the road and several more within a 2-hour flight, so it's not an investment that makes any sense for me, personally). Your "sweet spot" is probably not going to be the person who throws you 10-20 bucks, but the person who is willing to send you somewhere between $100-$1000. Someone who lives in the area who has a serious interest in a tunnel coming to town, but who might be a little more thoughtful about throwing money into a crowd-sourced investment than would someone who parts with $10-$20. If I were in the area and wanted to support you, I'd want some more info if I were going to give you $100 or $500 or $1000. But I probably wouldn't want to go through the hassle of signing a non-disclosure and non-compete agreement. Your attitude on this site and the vagueness with which you describe the project on the site is likely to alienate just that demographic you would do well to cultivate - the person with enough disposable income to throw you a couple hundred bucks. Your approach seems to be saying that "either you're willing to give us $10 or $20 with no information because that's such a tiny amount to risk OR you're a big-time, serious, five- or six-figure investor and we'll show you the goods." (And you probably already know there's better ways to cultivate the big-time, serious investors than a crowdsourcing site). Take care of the folks in the middle or it's going to take you an awful long time to hit $1.2 million using a crowd-sourcing approach."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slotperfect 7 #21 January 4, 2013 Locked while I do some homework. There is a no advertising rulle in the forums; if this is simply a solicitation to find potential investors it likely qualifies as an ad. More to follow . . .Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slotperfect 7 #22 January 6, 2013 I have a few points of friendly advice for you: -Complete your profile and add your real name and position in the company to your signature line. It will lend credibility to your posts here and increase the overall comfort level of the readers. Speaking for myself, if I am risking money by pledging it to you I want to know who is talking. -Post photo copyrights on your website photos if you own them; if you don't, be sure they are being used with permission and add a photo credit to each one. There are a lot of professional photographers in this online community that have had their intellectual property stolen and used for someone else's gain. -Update your website to include details for frequent tunnel flyers and/or skydivers. Right now the information there is oriented 90/10 recreation/training or fun flyer/skydiver. The lack of details for this audience have quite fairly been called "vague." Among us are tunnel staff, professional skydivers, competitors, and others with a great deal of tunnel experience and knowledge of various tunnels already available and the companies that build/run them. I personally have flown in six tunnels and train/coach regularly in two of them. The information provided tells me little or nothing about the size, power, general planned location or features. Based upon the information provided I would not risk $250 if I lived in your area, even though I can afford to. -Check out other new tunnel threads in thus forum to see what information thus audience is used to seeing when such announcements are made. Your business plan is yours do do with as you choose - I don't expect you to post it here - but I think people are fair in their assessment that more details are warranted if you expect a favorable response and want to avoid being constantly defensive here. Good luck with your effort.Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #23 January 7, 2013 Quotecan you please explain how he will turn a profit when 200 people contribute $5000 and then fly 5 minutes each for life? If you can't do the math, he's obligated to run the tunnel for free for more than 16 hours a day for life. Get real. Do you really think that someone with $5000 to invest in a 'possible' tunnel is also going to have the time to go to the tunnel and fly 5 minutes every day? Do you really think that 200 such people exist, and that all of them are going to camp out at the tunnel and soak up their 5 min every single day? Did you read the fine print, where they say that any 'free' time is only available during 'off peak' hours? Are there 16 'off peak' hours every day? I'm as skepitcal as the next guy, but it seems like you're shitting all over this guy's plan for no reason. 1.2 mil is not enough for a tunnel anywhere, but it is enough to get the attention of investors with deeper pockets. A good business plan and 10% of the costs up-front go a long way in terms of serious fund raising. Is 10 or 12 mil enough? Who knows, but what I do know is that NYC is likely to be a gold mine if you can get a tunnel in place. Population density is off the charts, tourism is off the charts, and shit costs a fortune there so you can charge premium dollars. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FlyNY 0 #24 January 11, 2013 Thank you all! We have reached the first milestone - 1% of our massive fundraising goal! Please tell your friends - www.FlyNY.net Follow on Twitter @FlyNYTunnel Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jfpgp 0 #25 January 18, 2013 Although I don't know him personally, I do know that he has been seriously invested in starting a wind tunnel in NY for some time. If you go to the link, it will give his name. Obviously the big investments would only be from people who live very close by, and have schedules that allow for "non-peak hours", so it's unlikely that you'd have more than a few. I don't know if the group investor thing will work, but it's worth a shot. And there's some good constructive criticism from slot perfect there Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
