chizz-gb 0 #1 October 9, 2012 Coming over to Arizona to do my AFF in April and lucky enough to have a wind tunnel 15 minutes away in the UK. I've done 12 minutes, can hold an arch, turn etc, but going to do a session (12 mins) a month till I go. There are no AFF courses there, so what should I look to accomplish before I leave ? I'd like to have the technique nailed so I can concentrate and enjoy what's happening around me. Sorry if there is a better place to post this, just tell me Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites excaza 1 #2 October 9, 2012 Since you're doing AFF in the US, check out the USPA progression card here and look at the freefall skills. It seems like you've already got most of what you can work on the tunnel down (arch & turn). Working off of that, you can experiment with different body positions and learn to fly more with your legs/core instead of your arms. You can also try out some flips & barrel rolls (with a spotter!). Talk to the tunnel instructors as well, let them know that you intend to do AFF and they should be able to work up some exercises for you. I personally like to work on fall rate control & RW when I'm in the tunnel because I fall like a brick but I like doing RW and I'd like to get my coach rating eventually (can't fall out on a student!). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chizz-gb 0 #3 October 9, 2012 Thanks for the link to the progression card, very helpful in terms of what I need to achieve. Are there a host of differences between free fall and a tunnel or are the two broadly the same ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MikeJD 0 #4 October 9, 2012 They are broadly but not quite the same. Chances are your weight distribution will be somewhat different when you first skydive, since you'll be wearing a parachute rig (and a big, heavy student rig at that!) This will probably put your centre of gravity further forward but you may not really notice it. More and more people are wearing dummy rigs in the tunnel now to better approximate actual freefall. The really big thing about the tunnel is having the walls as a reference. When you're learning this is a good thing because it helps you develop the muscle memory that keeps you on heading and in place, although you may find the lack of reference a little disconcerting when you get into the air. Experienced skydivers often find themselves bouncing off the walls the first time they fly in a tunnel - partly because it is a little different, and partly because they never realised how much they move around in the sky. Some things will be completely new, of course - exits, and all that inconvenient stuff involving the use of parachutes - there's no way (yet!) to simulate those properly in the tunnel. And aside from all the physical limitations, never underestimate the effect on your brain of actually jumping out of an aeroplane for the first time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chizz-gb 0 #5 October 9, 2012 MikeJD - Thanks for the reassurance that what i'm doing will ultimately be useful, although slightly different. Based on that I may have a search around for a dummy rig to wear in tunnel to get as close as i can to reality. Your last paragraph "aside from all the physical limitations, never underestimate the effect on your brain of actually jumping out of an aeroplane for the first time" really made me think as yes, I have seen the all the you tube videos's where the student does absolutely nothing and forgets he has to pull, or spins out upside down etc. It's that bit I'm hoping to avoid Lastly I'm pleasantly surprised at just how helpful people are here and I must admit, I paused before posting the thread as these to everyone else are such basic questions and I thought I might get shot down but that's not been the case. Thanks again.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites adamUK 3 #6 October 9, 2012 If you're using the airkix tunnel they have dummy rigs that you can wear for practice touches. They also have 'altimeters' that for alti checks too. Worth a squint. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chizz-gb 0 #7 October 9, 2012 Great, I'll ask about that, I have another session next week, been going to the one at Trafford Park. Seems odd they don't do an pre AFF course.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GLIDEANGLE 1 #8 October 10, 2012 Tunnel is a GREAT tool! It can greatly help your progression as a skydiver. HOWEVER, there are many important differences between actual jumps and tunnel time: Exit ~~The wind direction is completely different, and that makes a HUGE difference. Freefall... ~~Emotional impact of falling ~~Altitude awareness!!!! ~~No artificial frame of reference ~~Canopy Deployment Canopy... ~~This is the phase of the jump where most fatalities and serious injuries occur. (Serious injury or death in freefall above pull altitude is rare). ~~A bad freefall and a good canopy flight = "good jump" ~~A good freefall and a bad canopy flight = "ambulance ride"The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chizz-gb 0 #9 October 10, 2012 So when you exit your moving laterally at around 100 knts (same as the airframe) and thats something that you can't deal or practice for in a wind tunnel ? I suppose when your horizontal speed decreases and your vertical increases, you then stabilise. Does that happen almost immediately ? Yes as a student a "good jump" would be one where you end up unhurt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites adagen 0 #10 October 10, 2012 Have you tried talking to the tunnel instructors? Chances are they could put you in touch with someone who would do pre AFF training there. Or venture south - Bodyflight near Bedford definitely does pre-AFF training and can lend dummy rigs.Anne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GLIDEANGLE 1 #11 October 10, 2012 You will be taught the exit in your AFF program. (The details of that exit will vary based on aircraft used and specific technique preferred by your DZ). Don't sweat it. A nice stable arch with chin up is what you are taught in the tunnel... and it will be very valuable during your exit. The transition from horizontal wind to vertical wind is known as "The Hill". It lasts a few seconds (~5). Many skydivers find that flying on the hill is one of the best parts of freefall.The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites excaza 1 #12 October 10, 2012 Quote The transition from horizontal wind to vertical wind is known as "The Hill". It lasts a few seconds (~5). Many skydivers find that flying on the hill is one of the best parts of freefall. Mainly because you can flip off the people left in the plane Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chizz-gb 0 #13 October 10, 2012 "The Hill", learning already.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shorehambeach 9 #14 October 11, 2012 Hey Chizz GB Before you arrive for your session call them and tell them you are doing AFF - tell them you need to have an AFF instructor... just because they tunnel fly doesn't mean they know about AFF. A good stable arch is the key - everything happens around the arch. I would book an additional session just before you fly to Arizona :) Enjoy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. 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excaza 1 #2 October 9, 2012 Since you're doing AFF in the US, check out the USPA progression card here and look at the freefall skills. It seems like you've already got most of what you can work on the tunnel down (arch & turn). Working off of that, you can experiment with different body positions and learn to fly more with your legs/core instead of your arms. You can also try out some flips & barrel rolls (with a spotter!). Talk to the tunnel instructors as well, let them know that you intend to do AFF and they should be able to work up some exercises for you. I personally like to work on fall rate control & RW when I'm in the tunnel because I fall like a brick but I like doing RW and I'd like to get my coach rating eventually (can't fall out on a student!). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chizz-gb 0 #3 October 9, 2012 Thanks for the link to the progression card, very helpful in terms of what I need to achieve. Are there a host of differences between free fall and a tunnel or are the two broadly the same ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MikeJD 0 #4 October 9, 2012 They are broadly but not quite the same. Chances are your weight distribution will be somewhat different when you first skydive, since you'll be wearing a parachute rig (and a big, heavy student rig at that!) This will probably put your centre of gravity further forward but you may not really notice it. More and more people are wearing dummy rigs in the tunnel now to better approximate actual freefall. The really big thing about the tunnel is having the walls as a reference. When you're learning this is a good thing because it helps you develop the muscle memory that keeps you on heading and in place, although you may find the lack of reference a little disconcerting when you get into the air. Experienced skydivers often find themselves bouncing off the walls the first time they fly in a tunnel - partly because it is a little different, and partly because they never realised how much they move around in the sky. Some things will be completely new, of course - exits, and all that inconvenient stuff involving the use of parachutes - there's no way (yet!) to simulate those properly in the tunnel. And aside from all the physical limitations, never underestimate the effect on your brain of actually jumping out of an aeroplane for the first time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chizz-gb 0 #5 October 9, 2012 MikeJD - Thanks for the reassurance that what i'm doing will ultimately be useful, although slightly different. Based on that I may have a search around for a dummy rig to wear in tunnel to get as close as i can to reality. Your last paragraph "aside from all the physical limitations, never underestimate the effect on your brain of actually jumping out of an aeroplane for the first time" really made me think as yes, I have seen the all the you tube videos's where the student does absolutely nothing and forgets he has to pull, or spins out upside down etc. It's that bit I'm hoping to avoid Lastly I'm pleasantly surprised at just how helpful people are here and I must admit, I paused before posting the thread as these to everyone else are such basic questions and I thought I might get shot down but that's not been the case. Thanks again.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
adamUK 3 #6 October 9, 2012 If you're using the airkix tunnel they have dummy rigs that you can wear for practice touches. They also have 'altimeters' that for alti checks too. Worth a squint. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chizz-gb 0 #7 October 9, 2012 Great, I'll ask about that, I have another session next week, been going to the one at Trafford Park. Seems odd they don't do an pre AFF course.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GLIDEANGLE 1 #8 October 10, 2012 Tunnel is a GREAT tool! It can greatly help your progression as a skydiver. HOWEVER, there are many important differences between actual jumps and tunnel time: Exit ~~The wind direction is completely different, and that makes a HUGE difference. Freefall... ~~Emotional impact of falling ~~Altitude awareness!!!! ~~No artificial frame of reference ~~Canopy Deployment Canopy... ~~This is the phase of the jump where most fatalities and serious injuries occur. (Serious injury or death in freefall above pull altitude is rare). ~~A bad freefall and a good canopy flight = "good jump" ~~A good freefall and a bad canopy flight = "ambulance ride"The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chizz-gb 0 #9 October 10, 2012 So when you exit your moving laterally at around 100 knts (same as the airframe) and thats something that you can't deal or practice for in a wind tunnel ? I suppose when your horizontal speed decreases and your vertical increases, you then stabilise. Does that happen almost immediately ? Yes as a student a "good jump" would be one where you end up unhurt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
adagen 0 #10 October 10, 2012 Have you tried talking to the tunnel instructors? Chances are they could put you in touch with someone who would do pre AFF training there. Or venture south - Bodyflight near Bedford definitely does pre-AFF training and can lend dummy rigs.Anne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GLIDEANGLE 1 #11 October 10, 2012 You will be taught the exit in your AFF program. (The details of that exit will vary based on aircraft used and specific technique preferred by your DZ). Don't sweat it. A nice stable arch with chin up is what you are taught in the tunnel... and it will be very valuable during your exit. The transition from horizontal wind to vertical wind is known as "The Hill". It lasts a few seconds (~5). Many skydivers find that flying on the hill is one of the best parts of freefall.The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
excaza 1 #12 October 10, 2012 Quote The transition from horizontal wind to vertical wind is known as "The Hill". It lasts a few seconds (~5). Many skydivers find that flying on the hill is one of the best parts of freefall. Mainly because you can flip off the people left in the plane Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chizz-gb 0 #13 October 10, 2012 "The Hill", learning already.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shorehambeach 9 #14 October 11, 2012 Hey Chizz GB Before you arrive for your session call them and tell them you are doing AFF - tell them you need to have an AFF instructor... just because they tunnel fly doesn't mean they know about AFF. A good stable arch is the key - everything happens around the arch. I would book an additional session just before you fly to Arizona :) Enjoy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
